/robowaifu/ - DIY Robot Wives

Advancing robotics to a point where anime catgrill meidos in tiny miniskirts are a reality.

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Welcome to /robowaifu/, the exotic AI tavern where intrepid adventurers gather to swap loot & old war stories...


Waifu Materials Robowaifu Technician 09/12/2019 (Thu) 03:04:33 No.154
I would define a robowaifu as a doll with robotic features. However there are many different types of dolls (BJD, cloth doll, sex doll, etc). A doll has a skin or surface material, sometimes a filler (cotton), and sometimes internal structure (bones and joints).

Continuing the discussion from (((>>2831 >>2836 todo:relink))) , I want to create a thread to explore the many possible surface materials for a waifu (robo or no). The most important decision is whether to use a hard or soft material.

Hard Materials
>Ceramics
>Wood
>3D Printed Hard Plastic (PLA/ABS)
>Injection Molded Hard Plastic

Soft Materials
>Natural Fabrics (Cotton, Silk, Wool)
>Synthetic Fabrics (Vinyl, Polyester, Nylon)
>Fur/Hair (presumably synthetic, inb4 yiff in hell)
>Silicone or TPE Rubber (TPE is basically a cheaper form of silicone)

I'm strongly biased against the hard materials for comfort reasons. Personally, I have a hard time seeing myself falling in love with something hard, but others on this board talk about using hard materials, so I'm trying to keep an open mind.

My preference is for silicone, but there are four big problems with it. Firstly, it's expensive. Secondly, it impedes modification after the silicone has set. Thirdly, it contributes to the uncanny valley/silicone slut issue. Fourthly, it is heavy, and this weight really constrains the skeleton, posablity, and probably robotics. Because of the weight, silicone dolls have heavy-duty skeletons.

My second choice is therefore fabric, presumably stuffed with cotton. Fabric is super comfy, and has no uncanny valley issue. A non-fuggable fabric doll or robot would have no stigma issue, and could be the start of a productive hobbyist scene with plenty of females. Fabric is extremely lightweight which could be a plus or a minus. By itself, its unsubstantial and not ideal for robotics. A fabric robot is possible, but it requires hard, heavy parts underneath to provide structure and as actuators, which would make it less comfy. The fabric could be a textile (cotton), a synthetic leather (resembles skin, makeup/dress-up potential), or synthetic fur for you furfags out there.

Another possibility is a hard vinyl BJD-like doll with a layer of something comfy on top. Alternately, you all can reject my comfort autism if the benefits of having a hard doll/robot are clear enough. I'd like to hear others make the case for a hard doll/robot, since I don't think I could do the argument justice.

Finally, this is a discussion, not a debate. There are multiple paths we could take, and I'm sure different robowaifuists will try different techniques to see what works and what doesn't. I'm more interested in seeing what options are on the table than shutting down any particular approach.
>>6841 Yeah, thanks I will look into her work. Obviously this is much closer to what we need to do than casting a whole doll body. My thinking for a while now is that there will be something like a upper skin layer out of Spandex/Powermesh or other textile, then putting thin silicone onto it, so it soaks in or run down. Haven't tried that though, it's just a idea so far. I also bought some very thin silicone sheet which is pressed in a machine.
>>6883 I have done exactly what you are thinking about. Skinning cloth. It works! But I use the mentioned "sex doll TPE" not silicone. Unlike silicone it can be reworked and salvaged from premade sources making it a much more versatile and cheap option. Using TPE lets you skin chunks of cloth, stitch them together and melt and blend the seams together. You can also paint as much as your work area allows like a full body. You can use it as a glue so you can combine parts into complex shapes (like eye lids or lady bits). I'm working on techniques by first sewing, then painting with xylene thinned rubber. Then once cured, using a heat gun to rework the skin using patterned rollers and sponges for skin textures . This style will work fantastic for modular body styles. Allowing a creator to make smaller individual parts that can be upgraded or swapped later. Using the cosplay foamcraft as a shape holding scaffolding for a soft sculpt-able layer that can then be skinned makes a cheap and easy way to make some (moving part accommodating) curves!
>>6889 What about the toxic fumes? TPE from dolls is toxic when heated...
>>6892 If you heat it too fast the oil will vaporize. Go slow, wear the same mask you would for epoxy. Don't put your face in oil smoke. I have a specific painting room with two fans (soon a proper hood and airbrush set up). It's the xylene fumes that require more care. It can make smoke with heat, it's not good for you but it's not a chemical plume. Just smokes like fake bacon a bit. Still wear a mask with filters. You will need the same kind of set up for silicone too. None of this is play dough.
>>6895 >You will need the same kind of set up for silicone too. None of this is play dough. Thanks for the warning. Anons should take care with safety during manufacture ofc.
>>6943 This would become a real breakthrough for many areas of robowaifu design & manufacture if they can be made inexpensive and reliable. It would be an advance for many other domains too ofc. Very cool Anon, thanks.
>>6943 That's amazing. I wounder how long this stuff lasts when soaked into some textile or similar material. One problem with soft skin and soft muscles is to put sensors into them which last very long. The other electronic cold be in the bones, well protected. The sensors would need to be very resilient, but also the "cables" to transport their data to the next processor in the bones. Cables don't work very well, I bought a whole bag of earphones recently, because they only last a few weeks at maximum.
>>6943 Awesome! If this goes mainstream it could come in very handy for folding and bending circuitry to fit inside small spaces. Like the inside of a robowaifu chassis!
>>6943 >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallium >Elemental gallium is a liquid at temperatures greater than 29.76 °C (85.57 °F), and will melt in a person's hands at normal human body temperature of 37.0 °C (98.6 °F). >used in thermometers as a non-toxic and environmentally friendly alternative to mercury >Purities of 99.9999% are routinely achieved and commercially available. >>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indium >toxic when injected into the bloodstream >rare and not relevant: Indium lung >major future increases in the by-product production of indium will be possible without significant increases in production costs or price >The average indium price in 2016 was US$240/kg, down from US$705/kg in 2014 Looks like it's low risk and low cost. Looking forward to try this out one day...
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>>5106 >Plastics and risks. Maybe a nice warning label to print out as a reminder. Dangrs differ a lot, depending what plastic it is. ABS and ASA are also a bit closer to Styrene. PETG is safer than PETE and has a lower melting point, so it is used in 3D -Printing. I would still keep windows open or have a system to move te air out, or filter it. I actually collect HDPE, in case I ever try to recycle my PLA, because my this can be mixed into it.
>>9043 Thanks very much for the information Anon.
I used to work at a injection molding factory and if you are going to injection mold parts then do internal parts. Because injection molding is a expensive avenue, if you wanted to make plastic exteriors like forearma and calfs you can do it but the mold will be massive. We made plastic benches and even baby changing station and the molds are over 10 ton. They cost a family's organs to buy as well. Never mind your machine needs to be up to par to handle the mold. So you can easily spend quarter million to start even running the thing. So if you wanted to do injection molding is recomend internal parts. Our smaller molds were small components that went into other proceses like soil launchers. I recomend molding for sure but do vacuum forming and pour the parts in there. Learn from small dildo makers.
>>9211 I think I understand. Obviously any gigantic factory equipment wouldn't ever be a choice for any of us operating even small-factory operations from our garages, etc. But yes, seems like it would be a good approach for us maybe to 'create molds and do pours'. For the uninitiates among us, think you could explain what might be involved for an individual anon to set up some kind of operation to do just that? What kind of supplies and equipment would be needed for instance?
>>9226 Ill stick with the dildo analysis since it is easier to explain pours in that way. You first make your prototype, it can be anything like wood, metal, plastic. Pretty much anything that isn't the material that will make the mold. Once you have your prototype you then make your mold. Normally your mold will be made from a rubber epoxy. You put your prototype in a comtainer with a little bit sticking out to pill it out when you finish the pour of epoxy. Once the epoxy sets and hardens you pull out the prototype and then you have a mold. With that mold you pour your desired material mixture in, remember to not pour the same material as the mold bevause then you just ruined the mold, and you will now have a mold to make your desired parts.
>>9230 I see. Thanks Anon. So, if you wanted to just make a thin plastic shell of say, a robowaifu face or forearm, there would be at least one other step involved with the process?
>>9232 If you wanted a formed sheet if plastic like a face or forearm I recomend to look into vacuum forming. Taking a sheet of plastic, heating it up and using a vacuum to make the plastic form over a part. This is a good one to invest in to make outer shells. https://www.vaquform.com/
>>9233 >This is a good one to invest in to make outer shells. Very nice, thanks. A grand isn't out of reach for most of us who budget.
Health, safety and other considerations - The fungus Aspergillus fumigatus effectively degrades plasticized PVC. Phanerochaete chrysosporium was grown on PVC in a mineral salt agar. Phanerochaete chrysosporium, Lentinus tigrinus, Aspergillus niger, and Aspergillus sydowii can effectively degrade PVC. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chloride#Health_and_safety - In the EU Risk Assessment the European Commission has confirmed that Di-isononyl phthalate (DINP) and Di-isodecyl phthalate (DIDP) pose no risk to either human health or the environment from any current use. ... In Europe and in some other parts of the world, the use of DINP in toys and childcare items has been restricted as a precautionary measure. In Europe, for example, DINP can no longer be used in toys and childcare items that can be put in the mouth even though the EU scientific risk assessment concluded that its use in toys does not pose a risk to human health or the environment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chloride#Health_and_safety - Plasticized PVC is a common material for medical gloves. Due to vinyl gloves having less flexibility and elasticity, several guidelines recommend either latex or nitrile gloves for clinical care and procedures that require manual dexterity and/or that involve patient contact for more than a brief period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chloride#Health_and_safety
>>9564 While we all should exercise all due diligence with our own efforts, globohomo (((cautions & guidelines))) are often questionable at best. I would suggest that the more females are involved in the """investigation""", the more likely it is to be antithetical to rational evaluation, rightly balancing risks and rewards. I'd suggest we keep our eyes and ears open for safety issues, but regard the majority of health guidelines with blatant skepticism and a huge grain of salt. Is there any other need in this regard than mentioning the plainly deceptive example of the current evil machinations surrounding the Covid 'crisis', Anon?
>>9566 We can be sceptical about everything to some extent. It's probably a matter of trust, but we shouldn't ignore such guidelines. I won't. I still doubt that people would throw their scientific training and reputation away just to make things up. If you want to discuss that in some extended way, let's do it in the basement >>39
>>9588 Fair enough. Commonsense is justified. Just don't go acting like women over it, running around like a chicken with it's head cut off being blatantly manipulated over every.little.warning. They plainly will try to destroy us as a community legally, or by any other means they can contrive. Preemptively aborting the entire effort in the first place through hand-wringing fear on our parts would tickle their humors, I expect. Ridiculously, some people actually wear the masks willingly today. /robowaifu/ will never become an enclave of those types of people, friend.
This >>9564 is about using the right materials for the job when building something, and being aware of the constraints. Let's stay on topic please.
>>9592 I personally consider the discussion to be on-topic, board-health wise. Let's review: -we all should exercise all due diligence with our own efforts -rightly balancing risks and rewards -we [should] keep our eyes and ears open for safety issues -Commonsense is justified, but don't be overly fearful like some woman Did I miss anything? Oh yeah, just one: Our enemies will stop at nothing to destroy us. Demonic gaslighting is a favorite technique for them due to it's comedic effect. Again, all on topic for my part.
I don't really know shit about materials to use, but I was thinking of making the arms completely rigid up to mid-bicep and the legs up to the mid thigh. Everything else would have fake skin, possibly also the hands, because I don't want my junk getting pinched in the gap inbetween hard parts. Here's what I was thinking in terms of materials for the visible organic parts, mostly based on what regular prosthesis use: Hair: Polyester, Acrylic (maybe a rigid headpiece instead of hair) Eyes: Acrylic or Silicone Eyelashes: Polyester, Acrylic, Polycarbonate Teeth: Zirconia or Porcelain dentures Nails: Acrylic or Polycarbonate Tits: Saline and thickener (Japanese breast implants look better) Skin: TPE, Silicone or Latex like a Stretch Armstrong, which I believe is 0.2 to 0.5 thou thick. Covering joints should crinkle-up slightly when straightened, like the elbows instead of getting stretched too far when fully flexed. If an elbow joint has a 180° range of motion, the material should be cast with it bent at a 90° or at least a 45° angle. It might be a retarded idea, but I also keep thinking of vulcanized rubber like car tires, with carbon black for durability and painted a flesh tone would make it easy to spot any damage.
>>13157 Pretty good materials-list there Anon, thanks.
>>13157 >Tits: Saline and thickener (Japanese breast implants look better) Never had a love doll (so called sexdoll) but looked into it. The claim is, that silicone tits are much better than hollow ones. In breast enhancement for women they might also use silicone bags. So I don't know why you want to limit it to saline and thickener. Btw, silicone prosthetics are available on AliExpress. Didn't find good porcelain teeth, though. I hoped these were also available for training of dentists, but I only found dentures or veneers and often based on resin. I guess we have one more thing to model and build on our own.
>>13162 Thanks, but it's a really crude list because I don't really know what I'm doing. I'd prefer to limit it to as few different materials as possible if I could. >>13188 Breast implants are basically silicone balloons, which are typically filled with silicone oil/gel, but the ones I was referring to are instead thinner balloons filled with sterile medical saline, which tend to look just like jiggling water balloons when you spot them compared to the often overly-stiff silicone oil/gel ones common in the US. Since they don't need to go inside a body there's no reason a little cornstarch thickener couldn't be added to the saline for more realistic jiggle, which would probably lead to complications if they leaked inside an actual human body. Salt water and cornstarch is probably simpler than dealing with silicone oil.
>>13224 >I'd prefer to limit it to as few different materials as possible if I could. That's actually the mark of a seasoned pro. It's only the rank amateur that wants to pile on everything + the kitchen sink I'd day Anon. I hope you'll spend time and effort to further refine things for it tbh.
>>13245 Not really, I'm just cheap and lazy. I'd make the whole thing out of recycled wood if it didn't look and feel like shit or give my dick splinters.
>>13162 >>13245 I'm retarded. I only just realized that except for the teeth, tits, and skin, I listed acrylic for each of them. And looking at acrylic on wikipedia, it shows that there are artificial teeth made of acrylic too. I really need to learn how to machine this shit.
>>13279 >Not really, I'm just cheap and lazy Heh, like I said 'the mark of a seasoned pro'. :^)
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Electroplating carbon foam for strong yet lite parts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XRSf3vE_9o
>>13763 Very interesting, thanks. More info i n the video would have been better, though. It's unclear how strong it is, for example.
>>13787 From what I've seen, this technique produces parts that are pretty close to a full metal part. It is worth noting, that the more metal you plate, the closer to a full metal part with full strength.
It would be ideal if we don't pollute our homes with plastics by having a robowaifu. Hair might be one of the main problems. Human hair is an option, but expensive. Now I found out that hair can be made from banana plant fibers: https://youtu.be/C_n3nDgjle8
>>13862 That hair looks like shit, it probably smells bad too, especially once it starts to biodegrade. And how do you even wash it? I agree we should do away with plastics, but right now that's not really a viable option because of how versatile plastics are.
>>13871 The blonde one looked good enough. I assume you can wash it, don't see why not. Biodegradable doesn't mean it smells (bad). The whole thing is just something to keep in mind, it might need further investigation. >Banana hair can very often still have remnants of the banana tree fibre itself, it is difficult to remove all completely by hand as this takes a long time and it would reflect in the final price which we want to avoid. Again, we hope you can embrace these natural reminders using the ‘planet over perfection approach’. ... >The length is approximately 40″ folded over and each bundle weighs 30g or 90g. Banana hair is approximately half the weight of human or plastic hair. >Our hair is biodegradable, hypoallergenic, can be washed, https://rawsocietyhair.com/
>>13885 Sure I'm paid by the company to secure that new market, lol. You're probably our troll here. Dependent on the design, the outer shell of the body will be covered in medical grade silicone ruber.
>>13876 Lowered mass for hair is great, though it remains to be seen how cost effective it is for diy waifus
>>13892 Yeah, price is also an issue. However, if this gets to a point where it isn't for green hippsters but a mass product it might be cheap. It's made from plant waste and processed by very low wagies after all. The other thing is, robowaifus are for poor to wealthy guys. Broad spectrum. If one can afford children and a top notch robowaifu to raise them, additional costs for some hair might not be relevant. Plastics can allegedly have hormonal effects on fetuses, babies and toddlers, and no one realy wants a gender fluid "son".
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>>13904 Endocrine-disrupting microplastics are found everywhere now. Literally in snow in mountaintops and inside amniotic fluid. It's nearly inescapable. Your robowaifu's hair is an incredibly insignificant role. Fixing the problem requires replacing plastic on a giant scale, not just finding small, specialized substitutes that won't matter in a grand scheme.
>>13907 >in snow in mountaintops typical envirotard warmist propaganda its physically impossible to carry solids in evaporated liquids, theres 0 chance snow has any microplastics
>>13908 Not carried in evaporated liquid. Carried on the wind. Air currents. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/science-environment-49343293
>>13907 Not doing something because other things might also cause problems is a flawed argument and approach. I don't know if plant based hair will be relevant and economic. I just wanted that to bring that option to attention, because some of us might care.
>>13912 >Not doing something because other things might also cause problems is a flawed argument and approach. My point was that little things like alternative materials for wigs are like trying to cut salt from your diet to improve your health, while overlooking the fact that you live in Chernobyl. If everything's radioactive, the one or two little changes you make don't matter until you solve the big one. This is just really annoying for me, because I was thinking a lot about how to make a plastic-free alternative for food packaging from food-safe ingredients, and had a plan to do so. The idea is to make something cheaper and lighter than plastic and open-source, to curb plastic use at an industrial scale, not just a few niche applications that relying on hoping some people might adopt. Then I lost my job, so I can't really afford to experiment until I get a new one, because it's a big money-sink. The biggest would be getting a Yeast Estrogen Screening to see if any of the ingredients are estrogenic individually or when combined. It only recently occurred to me that I could post all about it here, but didn't want to make a thread until I actually started testing. (And I need to figure out how to use Open Office spreadsheets to help with the trial-and-error.)
It is possible if the plastics are essentially atomized not literal atoms (because obviously a plastic is composed of chains of atoms, called polymers), but the term "atomized" meaning >convert (a substance) into very fine particles or droplets. "the CO2 depressurized, atomizing the paint into a mist of even-size particles" It is quite possible these are carried everywhere peppering the entire planet. Its not the end of the world, depending on the amount of cumulative consumption necessary to cause significant endocrine disruption. But it's worth noting.
I just found out about a kind of plastic I think I never heard about: Delrin. It seem to be printable but seems to be difficult and not very popular in the low cost printing scene. It can also be machined, though. It seems to be comparable to aluminum, and is used in bushes of linkages of bigger machines. It has a lot of interesting properties: https://youtu.be/vIkIkcqJ-E0 (no sound, which is annoying for a video, but still interesting) Machined bushes for cars: https://youtu.be/CdkVZnmteSE and https://youtu.be/cdb2fU78Bvw Delrin also can be printed, but it seems to be difficult and generally a very bad idea. Machining it, seems to be more common. Here a printable alternative to Delrin, POM, and Acetal: High Temp Nylon (HTN): https://youtu.be/OCLMz05atEA More advanced and often expensive 3D printing materials, which often require special printers: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLWL6qzK573EvWBxek8oH1a79pYUXhqbcg
>>14544 Interesting material but I don't see the point of using it, if you have a light mil you'd rather work with a metal like aluminium it copper to get cool metal parts rather than do plastic which is already very easy to print. Overall it just isn't filling a niche that regular old PLA it ASA can't fill.

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