/robowaifu/ - DIY Robot Wives

Advancing robotics to a point where anime catgrill meidos in tiny miniskirts are a reality.

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Bipedal Robot Locomotion General Robowaifu Technician 09/15/2019 (Sun) 05:57:42 No.237
We need to talk about bipedal locomotion. It's a complicated topic but one that has to be solved if we are ever to have satisfyingly believable robowaifus. There has surely already been a lot of research done on this topic, and we need to start digging and find the info that's out there. There are some projects that have at least partial robolegs solutions working, but none that I know of that look very realistic yet. We likely won't come up with some master-stroke of genius and solve everyone's problems here on /robowaifu/, but we should at least take a whack at it who knows? We certainly can't accomplish anything if we don't try.

I personally believe we should be keeping the weight out of the extremities – including the legs – while other anons think that we should add weight to the feet for balance. What's you're ideas anon? How do we control the gait? How do we adjust for different conditions? What if our robowaifu is carrying things? What about the legs during sex? Should we focus on the maths behind MIP (Mobile Inverted Pendulum), or is there a different approach that would be more straightforward? A mixture? Maybe we can even do weird stuff like reverse-knee legs that so many animals have. Robofaun waifu anyone? What about having something like heelys or bigger wheels in the feet as well?

I'm pretty sure if we just put our heads together and don't stop trying, we'll eventually arrive at least one good general solution to the problem of creating bipedal robot legs.

>tl;dr
ITT post good robowaifu legs

>tech diagrams sauce
www.youtube.com/watch?v=pgaEE27nsQw
www.goatstream.com/research/papers/SA2013/SA2013.pdf
>>1617
BTW, I think the Pepper robot uses a tri-wheel scheme for it's base?
>>1618
I see my approach more as an assisted form of bipedalism building up to the real thing. This quick sketch might give a better idea of what I'm talking about. It would still have the appearance of walking so it's not comparable to sitting in a wheelchair or being carted around vertically on a hand truck.

By using two mechanum wheels you get to spin around by running each wheel in opposite directions. Omnidirectional wheels have their own advantages and disadvantages.
>>237
70.000 USD for a fucking prosthetic leg, jfc.
>>1621
I see. Yes that diagram does make it clear. In effect, you are providing her with an irl cartoonishly oversized 'foot' with which to get around on, but one that would shrink back to normal size when not needed.

>>1622
Ever price even the most basic of medical supplies in a hospital context anon? No surprises tbh.
>>1624
>Ever price even the most basic of medical supplies in a hospital context anon? No surprises tbh.

Yep, but 70k is still a lot for a device that's not even worth a fraction of the price in materials or manufacturing. I mean what's to be expected when every megalomaniac cocksucker and their granny is allowed to milk people's health for all it's worth and call it a day.
>>1625
Look I'm not promoting their (((approach))) I'm simply encouraging you to be realistic. Let's continue this off-topic discussion in the Lounge if you'd like.
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>>1621
Looking into humanoid bipedal robots that have a single wheel on its feet this EMIEW2 is the closest one. Other robots typically have several wheels per foot(Zephyr) have the wheel as part of a normal robot foot to add wheeled locomotion(GoRoBot) or more than a pair of legs. The other decent design is the WL-16 leg platform using WS-2 feet but that has a caster alongside a powered wheel.

I've gone through at least 50 research papers on robot walking methods(and have another 50 to go through) and have seen some interesting designs and solutions but none of them use the approach I'm proposing where the wheel is only used to shift the center of gravity during the stride while keeping the robot stable with 3 points of contact on the ground at all times.

One thing that hit me when browsing another forum are those minisegways cost less than $200 now. Rather than trying to do bipedal locomotion I'm going to have my first model balance properly on top of that until a cheap solution is found.
>>1776
>I've gone through at least 50 research papers on robot walking methods(and have another 50 to go through)
Mind posting a few of them here for the rest of us anon?
>>1776
>hoverboards
Yep, we've had this conversation before now. The posts haven't been restored here yet but I came down in favor of the idea myself.
>>1776
Why is that robot in the middle wearing a diaper?
>>1777
Eh most of them aren't worth reading otherwise I'd have uploaded a pack of them here. These two are probably the best I've found on the topic for a general overview.

>>1778
The segway mini isn't really a hoverboard since you use your knees rather than your feet to control it. The center of gravity is much lower to the ground and there's no having to keep the robot upright on it.

>>1794
It looks even more like a diaper from the back. The reason for the protrusion around the abdomen is it's designed to sit in the seiza position with giant feet.
>>1806
>Eh most of them aren't worth reading otherwise I'd have uploaded a pack of them here. These two are probably the best I've found on the topic for a general overview.
Fair enough thanks, thanks for filtering the mediocre for us Anon.
>segway mini
https://www.invidio.us/watch?v=h8GUkc6mzzI
They seem a little more expensive than 'less than $200'. Am I missing something? They do look like a good choice. The robowaifu would still need basic bipedal locomotion to be able to use it effectively (climbing on/off, steering) but nothing particularly good. Good idea.
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A lot of good thinking going on here anons, but much of this discussion is fundamentally flawed. We want our waifu to be: -Inexpensive -Easily Reproducible -Low Power From these tenets, having any active stabilization beyond the minimum isn't advisable. She should have legs that naturally conform to walking on various terrains. For this reason, having a tail or some other method of passive balance (a dress that hides balancing struts, big feet with a low center of gravity, or have her hold something like a walker in front of her.) these examples will all work for a robowaifu that is inexpensive and low power as she doesn't waste energy on balance. Roll is a great example of low center of mass with big feet
>>1873 I don't think balance is a concern for complexity or power consumption. Returning to balance from outside forces is easily accomplished. Getting a dynamic gait is the big problem. Maybe we could cheat it with a neural network. Really if you're not just making a sex robot you're going to be using neural networks or something close. A simple solution for movement is to go completely on rails. Not rails literally but railings countertops and other waist-height edges. The waifu would be restricted to the home but would have plenty of well defined static supports to use and only flat surfaces to traverse. She'd just never cross a wide open room or maybe you could throw a pool table in the middle of it. Some Anon have entertained the idea of using a tether for power and could equip their home with a literal overhead rail system that would be far more discrete than the other stabilization ideas mentioned.
>>1882 If you're using rails and tethers, why walk? Also, self balancing is easy for humans but, hard for computers. Neural networks should be used for her personality and communication, it's better to make her walking something that relies on good mechanics rather then complex software. We must keep costs and complexity both in hardware and software, to a minimum.
I'd like to throw another idea in. For very human-like waifus: Wheels are the way to go, but if she should have normal looking feet, then let's build her some kind of rolling boots. Like those for skiing, but less tight and with wheels on the bottom. Batteries included. She would only need to keep balance, but knowing how the contraption behaves is going to help with that. Also her ankle would be hold by the boot and she wouldn't need to move her arms or legs. That aside, if they have good sensors in their feet we should be able to solve bipedal walking at some point anyways. Though, it hasn't the highest priority of course.
>>4331 That's a pretty good idea Anon. Some sort of fore/aft-extendable Heelys might be sufficient to allow her to both skate around and to remain fairly stable. >That aside, if they have good sensors in their feet we should be able to solve bipedal walking at some point anyways. TBH, it will take far more than just good sensors in the feet to solve this but I believe we will in time.
>>1885 >We must keep costs and complexity both in hardware and software, to a minimum. Well said, Anon. Even for non-profit, garage-lab, labors-of-love projects, complexity & costs will always be an issue. And for the entrepreneurs among us, they already know keeping them low is a critical factor to success.
>>4369 I look at at this way: Those who work on more expensive waifus might need simpler prototypes which would be using tech from lower cost bots. So, this doesn't harm the enthusiasts with less money. Also, the richer guys might pick up some other approaches as a side project. The scope here is from virtual, paper waifus to quite human-like with a lot of sensors.
>>4375 >The scope here is from virtual, paper waifus to quite human-like with a lot of sensors. Alright fair enough Anon. My primary ambition with all this is to help literally millions of disenfranchised men build their own robowaifus at home. That means structural drinking straws, 3D-printed parts, cheap paper and plastic shells, cheap electrical motors, batteries, and electronics. The software I'm giving away entirely free at my own expense. For the guys who want to build the US$120K deluxe robowaifus ready to go onto a SciFy set for a long day of shooting latest series, I say more power to them. As you say, there is a wide-scope of interests here at /robowaifu/ and that's a good thing ofc.
Has anyone printed Poppy and tried it with cheaper motors? Anyone ever looked for other people who tried that? Some ideas in the comments: https://hackaday.com/2014/03/25/open-source-humanoid-robot-is-awesom-o/ Files, software, tutorials: https://github.com/poppy-project/poppy-humanoid Their Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/c/PoppyprojectOrgVideos
>>4436 Yeah, you really hit the nail on the head with that question Anon. Poppy is a great little project, but those Dynamixel servos are waaaay too expensive for the torques you get. Granted they are good quality, but unless you're wealthy they are simply too expensive in my opinion. I'm trying to puzzle out a solid approach to having a 'central power unit' in the torso, that uses simple (and cheap) regular DC motors to generate the force, and then distribute that around the body via clever transmission/transduction schemes.
>>4438 Cool. Did you print out Poppy and you're working on that? I don't know much about this stuff, yet. It seems to be important to measure where everything is, then adapt the body or the next move. Did you consider using a neuronal network for that?
>>4440 >Cool. Did you print out Poppy and you're working on that? No. Once I looked at the overall cost of the project, I knew it would be fruitless to start printing parts out yet. Again, the power delivery is simply too cost-constrained r/n. Thus why I'm interested in solving it with regular DC motor which are out there in practically every capacity imaginable and far cheaper for each Newton delivered than high-tech servos are. The servos are for accuracy ofc, but I hope that some clever mechanical/software solutions can address that. >Did you consider using a neuronal network for that? Sure ofc that's the intent with whatever project we do here I think. As I've said for a while now, the AI for our robowaifus will be much, much harder to solve than the physical shell for her. It's going to take a long time, IMO.
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>>4441 Oh, so you're saying it only makes sense to print it out and try it, when one knows about the size of the replacement dc motors? When I mentioned NN here I didn't mean some AI to create a whole waifu mind, but specifically to putting all the states of the motors and joints in, then learning from falling or not falling. Maybe looking not only into the last state, but the ones before which lead to failing or success.
Does anyone know a website with a search function to compare as many electric motors as possible. Didn't find anything and don't have the nerves for it today. I didn't mean AliExpress. Need to filter them for weight and other values. It not only for finding motors for >>4436 (Poppy), but yeah, this would a good example.
>>4473 Based on what this Skyentific guy on Youtube is using for his arms I endet up to find out that drone or RC motors will probably be what's needed to have the same power and then implement the sensors and controls in another way. I found them with "brushless multirotor motor". More I don't need for now. When I have my printer I might play around with it, first only thinking about sensors. >>1602 Link broken, new one: https://www.epfl.ch/labs/biorob/research/humanoid/walkman/
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>>4504 One thing you have to be able to accommodate is extremely high RPMs with these motors, especially the tiny little ones for whoop-type micro drones (~50'000 RPM!). They drain energy rather quickly as you might imagine. But, they can impart a remarkable amount of lbs-ft in short order. Think of them kinda like F1 engines for fairybots heh. Example: Apex RC Products 7x20mm Fast 17,900kv / 66,000rpm CW CCW Brushed Motor Set
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>>4505 Yes, some gearbox for reducing will be necessary. But, you really picked a extreme one, and also I meant rather the flat motors. In the video https://youtu.be/WKRLlthr9kY he is using something like on the pic. I have no data for it, since it seems to be out of production, similar looking ones have a RPM of 1200-5000 which would need to be reduced with a factor of about 150 or 200, I guess. Maybe that not the right approach anyways, the second picture is how the Dynamixel looks like (with ~200 reduction included). I'll look into it on occasion, don't know yet if it will be possible to get a gearbox separately. It's far from urgent anyways.
>>4510 >But, you really picked a extreme one Hehe. That's because I bought a few of these for use in robowaifu arms and to have an 'excuse' to shell out some readies for a whoop drone :^). These little babys are so lightweight, that you could embed 5 of them into the end of each forearm just below the wrist w/o paying to high a lever-moment kinematic penalty. And, given their ability to wind up basically instantly, their ability to impart a remarkably high amount of (accumulated) force in short order makes them a unique possibility for driving strong, lightweight robowaifu hands. Inexpensive too! As with all engineering, everything is a tradeoff. These scalding little bitches put out the heat force of a thousand suns. In their drone use, the motor's shells are both open to air and located directly under their equally high-speed rotating blades, which cools them off. We'd have no such luxury with them inside of our robowaifu's wrists, and I still haven't managed to puzzle out a reasonable cooling system for a 5-set yet. If we can somehow manage that together, then it would be an ideal use-case for these great little motors.
>>4513 I rather wonder how much torque they have, and how you want to add a gearbox or other reduction? However this might fits better into >>406 for actuators in general. We still don't have a thread for hands and forearms or arms in general. I wonder if there has been one in the old forum and will it be imported?
Reminder: This was possible 6 years ago: https://youtu.be/8uiPHL-xey4 and this is from recently: https://youtu.be/aVJs_x2a9z4 I don't think people should focus on walking, but for example if one doesn't need a human-like form like a doll, without making a lot of noise while walking, then developing something might be much easier. Same goes for something rolling with feet like little tanks: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:972768 (okay, that's a bit OT in a thread about bipedal walking) Gymnastics and dancing: https://youtu.be/BhYUjSAwNB4
>>5223 >okay, that's a bit OT in a thread about bipedal walking ehh, it's not too bad. we do have a wheelchair waifus thread >>2983, so it might be there, but this is probably the best place imo.
This here >>5358 is about walking, James Bruton released his example of a walking bot 2018.
Walking? Meh! Balance bot wheels for feet. "Rollergirl never takes off her skates".
>>5634 you must into pix plox
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>>5635 Some things I have been looking at: #1 Hovershoes. Off the shelf solution for locomotion with many open DIY solutions available. Balance control becomes an issue for weight above hip line. Might suggest thinking about internal gyroscopic stabilization. Give it its own gravity well it its chest. #2 the Cubli robot uses 2 motorized disks to spin up manipulating balance. Legs can act as dynamic shocks instead of primary locomotion and balance. Air muscles are viable for this job since the legs need to loosely hold positions instead of supplying quick motion. What used to be a complex circuit for understanding balance and motor control can be done with an opensource RC flight controller with tweaked PIDs. $.02
>>5645 Thanks. Yes I think both hovershoes or some other form of motorized system could serve well as motive 'footwear' in the interim. And gyro-stabilization is also generally a good idea, if power-hungry. Ultimately, typical human bipedal locomotion is the goal, but in the meantime we'll settle for alternative approaches as needs be. >PIDs. So, for the uninitiate, PID is some sort of feedback control mechanism then?
>>5667 Apologies, that page seems to be account-walled. Here's a playlist https://invidious.snopyta.org/playlist?list=PLn8PRpmsu08pQBgjxYFXSsODEF3Jqmm-y
>>5667 Turns out this guy Brian Douglas has his own independent YT channel. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCq0imsn84ShAe9PBOFnoIrg
>>5671 Apologies, don't mean to bang on about it, but I'm finding more good resources as I dig along. https://engineeringmedia.com/resources
here we have an interesting mechanism https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uv-Qp8p8Jqg
>>5930 That is interesting thanks. Is there a paper or anything more available on it Anon?
>>5931 nah this was random video in my youtube feed. I am wondering if this mechanism will be enough to achieve balance
>>5933 Here's his channel, seems like he's done a few of these. Amateur designer? https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC7hw6ztc_mnFh630R0MS5uQ
>>5936 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlBgMg9WFfA men god. Luckily my family is heavy into machinery and maybe I will be able to build this. only the mechanism not the propulsion
>>5982 I think if you used 4 of those MIT Mini Cheetah clone thin disc actuators talked about here >>4890 in the hips, then you could probably pull this off. Apparently they run ~$350-400 ea. so plan on about $1500 for the actuators. But if you can get this working it would be both relatively inexpensive and remarkably efficient afaict. That anon's exact design would need some modification. The support frame for the hips would have to separate out the two pairs far enough apart to work well for the onahole cartridge inside robowaifus. https://biomimetics.mit.edu/
>related xpost >>8704
Feet development, related to DARA project >>8704

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