/robowaifu/ - DIY Robot Wives

Advancing robotics to a point where anime catgrill meidos in tiny miniskirts are a reality.

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Prototypes and failures Robowaifu Technician 09/18/2019 (Wed) 11:51:30 No.418
Post your prototypes and failures.

I'll start with a failed mechanism, may we build upon each others ideas.
>>13753 Not sure if this posting was serious or if you're trolling. The 3rd prototype refers to the one in the first posting, or to the dog? >>13766 Too expensive and not good enough.
>>13786 lole, the 3rd prototype was in the first posting ye and this dog is here to fill the post space :D
>>13796 Then I'm glad, because of this concerned me: > when I seen the leg moving up, it was so exciting heh
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>>13704 So, I'm on it. Time to make a separate thread soon, I guess. Tested the twisted sting actuator a few minutes ago a little bit. It felt strong, but my whole setup is currently too finicky to do propper testing. Getting the connectors and holders printed was also a bit harder than anticipated. The holes on the lower end of the motors aren't really parallel, I guess. Will need to improve that, now only two screws hold the "arm". Getting the twister on top (holder for the strings) right was also quite some trial and error. Also ran into another issue with my printer because I forget to fasten the nozzle while it was hot. So it created some hot plastic mess around the hotend, and the nozzle came out further through the pressure and so it got closer to the printbed nearly scratching it. Whatever, the robowaifus will come.
>>13931 Good to see progress. Do keep in mind that she will need a agonist and antagonist pair. I would recommend adding gears so that one pair winds as the other unwinds.
>>13937 >adding gears Ah, I think I know what you mean. I'll keep that idea in mind. Thanks. However, I plant to use very different muscles dependent on the movement, and this is a very early design. I'll try at first to get an arm lifting itself up and then going down through gravity after release. I also plan to add a cycloidal drive to the ellbow.
>>13962 You should draw a general picture of what you're trying to make. It will help your fellow anons understand your intentions and provide better guidance and advice.
>>13970 Maybe I will. Though, I haven't decided on every detail myself. It's more of a general thing to mention, that the arm won't need the same force to lift than to fall down again. Then for pushing something, another actuator might be better than a twisted string actuator.
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I printed some parts of the spine prototype based on my design above >>12923. I printed one in full size and five at 40% or so, to build a little model without motors but screws instead to test it. Just need to buy some glue, and then design and print a rack for the whole thing. Also printed some shoulder part here >>9142 to test it. It helps to have it in my hands to imagine where to go with it. Now I have some more specific ideas how to use it. I already flattend the edge, so I can add motors to both sides. Other movements will probably be done with some string actuators.
>>13998 Glad you're learning how to improve it as you go. Do remember that walls bring prints strength, not infill. You can save a lot of mass without losing any strength by keeping parts like this 2 walls with 5 percent infill to help with bridging the large flat tops.
>>14003 Yeah, I was using 15% infill and two walls, which is probably more than necessary for a test. Thanks for the hint. However, printing isn't what's eating my time, designing and doing other unrelated things takes much more of it.
>>13541 OP, I'm going to be merging your prototype thread into our already-standing general prototype thread soon. Please keep us all up to date on your work, good luck.
>>14092 Oke and about this project I cannot do much now since the ongoing prototype will cost much more, thus I pause this project and do others meanwhile. Finding a job might be a good idea for the sake of that project lol
>>14092 Maybe it would fit better into the prototypes and failures thread. It's a prototype, not general engineering, and also conceptually closer to my Genera Plattform than other approaches, and I'm posting my files there for now.
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>>13998 So, my progress is still very sluggish. I looked a bit into imageboards and hosting while the board seemed to be under peril. Got a bit stuck on 4chan as well, and also looked into which Linux distro to choose for the future. Which is kind of related anyways. However, I started to work on the rack to hold the spine. Picrel is just held up by a toothpick, and that's not what I meant. I'm designing a small holder with manual twisters to roll up some strings, so I can see how it behaves in this small model. Then I'll print one which holds the motors for the bigger one. I really need only a few hours per design, to get at least something interesting, so it should go faster now
>>14111 I started to use the references for the bigger one, till I realized this could be a problem if I want to use it on the small one. I probably can't just scale everything down in form of the STL file, bc some parts might be to small then. I hope I'll finish this tomorrow. - I will also need to buy some protective goggles to use while cutting down steel tube for the bones. - I was also already spending time on renaming the different workplane layers in my 3D files, so I can upload the files as polished version. It gets messy without proper naming. I already try to start naming these layers directly after creating them, so I don't have to look into it later and also to make my own work easier. - Then I also need to write some intro for the first posting to finally create the official thread to this project.
>>14111 Just some helpful advice, your printers bed needs to be leveled and you have some minor over extrusion. I've had those problems too and fixing them sooner is better then later. As for your design, it's pretty complex. I mean you'd just fine having a few with a semi flexible spinal material running through them. It would make the design easier to articulate while reducing mass. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUEp-AfvvzE
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>>14113 Sorry, but I have to more or less deny all of this. My printer bed is quite well leveled out. I also don't believe you can tell that from looking at these pics. Then I know about the overextension, but I don't think this is important. Getting FDM prints perfect can also be quite a waste of time, and here its about prototypes and internal elements. I spend way too much time tuning my printer when I got it. The real problem I detected is, that gluing the parts together can produce irregularities. Might be less of a problem with the bigger parts, though. I also wasn't careful when I worked on that. As for you alternate design, I'm not interested in a simplified model. Otherwise I would have gone with that. It absolutely doesn't fit into my plans. I'll make it even much more complex, by adding a human-like s-curve to it later. This is the most simplified version already. Though, I might try out other approaches as well.
>>14102 >>14104 Alright, will do. I'll merge your thread here soon: >>418
>>14114 Hey, spine-guy, how much do you actually know about the human spine? I've been trying to figure out which thoracic vertebra would be the hardest to reach with the hands. I was thinking of having a rod sticking out of the back, somewhere it couldn't get in the way, to help support the body while trying to figure out movement. From this diagram I'm going to guess it's the 4th or 5th from the top.
>>14159 Sorry I don't know and I'm not sure if I understand your question. If you look at the back of someone bending forward, afk or in a video, you'll probably see all bones of the vertebrae. I think the ribs around the 7th from the top might be harder to see and feel, because of the shoulder plates and muscles.
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>>14112 Still on it, but it's trial and error. I made some mistakes and had to change and reprint it every time. Now it's glued together. Though, it hasn't been tested with the strings yet. The final version also needs to be printed with more infill, since the base gave in to pressure I had to put on it. I also took care of overextrusion like >>14113 above recommended. I had the Gcode for it in my config already anyways. The print still isn't pretty, but this doesn't matter and can be minimized easily. Then, I got a bit into face design in this paper craft style here >>271, but printed out of plastics, like mentioned here >>14124. It's also just a case study or early prototype for now, though. I'll post the images from my other computer.
>>14165 Your project has much potential. It'll be a long road to get things just right, stay strong. >Papercraft face Please do share your work in the waifu face dev thread. We can all use this. Face development is one of the hardest nuts to crack.
>>14165 I'm working with my current spine model now, trying to add some strings. Which is as annoying as it sounds. The thought crossed my mind, that this approach was a mistake and I should've printed it bigger from the start, since I'm using cheap plastics anyways. I'm glad that the twisters at least hold onto the knobs at the plate. I was concerned that I might need some more complex design and redo the whole thing. >>14167 >Please do share your work in the waifu face dev thread. We can all use this. My current policy or MO is to upload my prototype designs here in this thread. Then I add crosslinks to the other threads where it might fit in, which ideally other people should do more as well with their postings of designs. I also upload my designs to my Megashare account after a while. It's some additional work to do, so I only do that once a week or so. I then intent to link it again sometime in the threads covering some specific topic, when I reach a real milestone. I think the papercraft inspired chibi design in plastic idea is promising. For placeholders or simple robowaifus. The face can be a little bit 3D, and it could alternatively also be molded with silicone to be soft and skin-like. Designing and printing a fitting head should also be rather easy, in a simple form or more complex with a round back out of TPU (soft plastic). However, as you can see, I'm not an artist with drawing experience, so I'll need to do some work on it. This early design also has some error, indicated by the red edges. >Face development is one of the hardest nuts to crack. Yes, it's even harder if you want some kind of skull and soft skin. Everything very human-like. The Alita Battle Angel bust is the reference for the top notch model, but it also has to move, needs a mouth with a moving tongue and needs to have facial expressions >:-D ... long way to go :-c
>>14160 I really don't know how to explain what I said any better than I did. Trying to scratch your own back with your bare hands, which vertebrae do you think would be hardest to reach?
>>14170 I can reach all, but I'd say 6th or 7th. However, I don't really know.There might be articles to find on this.
>>14168 I caught some passion for that side-project, and went on designed a simple head. Finally found out about how to pick any color, since the color picker doesn't really work. So I can use some skin tones now, besides orange, yellow and brown. However, adding even more and more complex hair made my system starting to get sluggish, at least while having other programs open, so I might look into installing my Linux on the laptop first. Or I can still work on the spine and the face. We'll see.
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>>14168 I think I have to give the spine model a work over. I didn't consider that it wants to fall over to much in one direction. It's also difficult in general to roll the stings up and to keep it from moving in unwanted ways. This might be in part due irregularities in the balls I'm using, and in part simply because it is based on spheres in the first place. Now I'm considering something even more similar to the human spine, since this might work better: Something flatter instead of balls, but with round corners. Maybe also higher at the back than the front to mitigate the tendency to bend backwards. I considered such adjustments anyways, but I thought to introduce them later to keep it simple at first. I also had the idea of putting up a paper diagram on some door with all the parts I'm currently or soon working on, with a progress score attached to each. Like 'Arm TSA 1', 'Pelvis 0' or 'Knee 1'. Currently it has 15 points with low scores. From time to time I'm picking the one I'm most motivated to work on, instead of getting stuck with one part.
>>14199 I made some progress during the last few days, but nothing big. First, a kind of rig for my current shoulder joint design, with also some holes added. I want to try out different approaches in terms how to add motors or muscles to it, so I came up with this. The red holes go through the part and may be able to move the other part attached on the other side (right/outside) in two different directions. Obviously, a motor could be at the joint (in pink) moving it in both directions, but I want this to be fixed in that direction while strings pull the other part, which might be the arm, along the bigger part. In this test rig the outer part may or may not be fixed to the plate and then move the outer part or the big blue one. I also started do to design a "simple" elbow joint, which got more and more complex. It's just for testing my twisted string actuator, while not having a motor in the elbow for now. The red bars are supports. I added them in the design, so I don't need the slicer to add them, which would be much worse. Screws should go into the place where these bars are, though I might try to put in some roller bearings in a later version. Then, I had to come up with a new way of designing an eye for my face. Because the old one didn't work and trying to fix it cost me time without any gain beyond some experience. The new one is just a sketch so far, but it's way simpler to change. Surprisingly it's easier to use a Bezier spline with defined constraints, than using arches and line segments. I also made a calculation, that I could more or less design on part in one day or make a mayor improvement in the same time. Even if printing, testing and correcting takes another day or a bit more and I'll have sometimes other things to do, or slacking off for some time, it should be possible to create 100 parts or improvements per year. I plan to use this as a benchmark for myself from now on. Hundred new designs or improvements per year should be the minimum.
>>14274 Very impressive work Anon. Your efforts just continue to improve as is evident for all to see. On another level, you're also an encouragement to me personally. I too have been working to improve my craft towards achievements of reliable robowaifu software. It's a long and challenging road for me, but I too have made some nice progress in the last few days. I'll plan to post an concept intro release sometime over the coming weekend. Please stay encouraged Anon, you're a blessing to us all.
>>14199 >I didn't consider that it wants to fall over to much in one direction. Yes, gravity is a swine when it comes ball joints (well, any joint not linked to a powered servo, really). Can't really model it without a proper simulation either, so it's easy to make mistakes. I found it was best to constrain joints to certain axis of motion like X and Y. Which you appear to be already doing in >>14274, so nice progress! One question tho, anon. What are the threaded rods at the bottom of the torso going to be for? Are they intended to let the whole spine assembly move up and down?
>>14275 Thanks. Looking forward to it. >>14280 The problem with the ball joints is something I should have seen coming, but overlooked it. I'll find another way. I remembered, that my first ideas was to go with some kind of saddle joint anyways. Just went with the idea of ball joints on a whim. There are other options. >What are the threaded rods at the bottom of the torso going to be for? Are they intended to let the whole spine assembly move up and down? They are meant to hold the whole thing in place, till it's pulled in one direction but still restrained by the other stings. Which was a naive idea, I know. Wanted to try it out and thought it was easier to do so than it really was. These rods also represent the twisted string actuators I plan to put into the full scale model. >>14274 Today and yesterday night I worked on some improvements: I gave up on the bad design of the eyes in my test face, and implemented the new approach I mentioned before, based on Bezier splines. It's still not good looking but the underlying technique is way better now, and I can change it more easily. I'm glad I found that way by just trying out something. It only works with creating the Bezier spline in a certain way, otherwise it has more than four points which need to be constrained. Though, the whole idea of the printed face might go nowhere, since printed paper faces of anime characters might look better anyways. Then again, not anyone has a color printer for dead trees or a printshop close by and there might be other benefits. It's slightly 3D for example. The old design was severely flawed, because I made the mistake of picking the wrong layer to build upon. This is something to look out for, happens sometimes to me and can be very annoying. Let's say the eyes and eyebrows weren't really attached to the face in the old design, it only looked like it from the front, but there was a gap in between. That is solved now. For the future I will need to look at some more anime faces to see if and how I can improve the new design. Then I had to add some supports to my shoulder joint design, which I don't even know if it will go anywhere. I have a few other approaches in mind as well. However, the holes for the strings needed some support and I prefer to put such into the CAD design myself. This also proved more tricky than anticipated since it's fairly complex. I printed a sized down model of it and it looks good so far, but the test setup still isn't finished. Then, my elbow joint also made some progress and has been (partially) printed. The photos of my prints are on my tablet, so no photos here but nothing special to see anyways. I hope to focus on the elbow joint and motor holder next, so I can test part of my arm design with the twisted string actuator soon. Also need to cut the tubes and need to make the electronic wire setup less flimsy first, though.
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>>14299 Today was a bit of a dud. Got a clog in my printer. Most likely kind of my fault, I hope, since this is better than a problem with the printer. Fell out of routine during my time without printing, and forgot stuff. I pulled on the filament to get it out, while the nozzle was at 100°C. Should have heated it up to 160-200 first. It broke within the heatpipe, and now I have to disassemble the thing and push it out with a toothpick (again). The upside is, that I'm getting more and more used to this sh...stuff. Like a soldier reassembling his weapon. However, maybe I'll still model something today, so I'll get something done. Days with archievements are just better. The pics are from yesterday. Got my waterbags, for testing my idea with using something alike as a muscle to hold the body bend in some way, without using the motors: Two bags with air, connected in the middle through a valve. Air is on one side through some movement, valve closes, body won't move back to the old state.
>>14312 I had difficulties the last time I tried to design a motor holder mentioned here >>13931 since the holes on the bottom are kind of skewed. I think I found a way of getting around that, by looking at it in a different way. It's important to ignore the openings for cooling, and just focus on the relation of the holes to each other. Also had an idea for the holder of the motor, attached to the arm. I will probably use some slider lanes. I'll put the screws onto the bottom of the motor, sticking out, then it can be hanged into these lanes. Only the heads and some plastic would hold the motor, though. However, I could make the screws longer and plastic thicker, or at some point later make the holder at least partially out of metal. Didn't print any of for now, since I didn't fix my printer yet. But I will, tonight.
>>14327 Is the pic #3 the one with 'slider lanes' Anon? Those look like they will hold another piece that fits into it very securely.
>>14327 These designs are very helpful for visualizing the general support structures inside a robowaifu's shell. Thank you for making these.
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>>14327 My printer works again. I'm really used to disassemble the head by now. It's still stressful, but I won't put it aside for two months again. After printing my elbow design, I found several things to improve, some are already implemented. This includes the issue that I didn't think all things through and I have to do it now. Especially how to exactly holding these part together. No big deal, some more modelling, with try and error. Currently it is way to noisy when moving them around, even without motor. I'll make sure to reduce the friction and let smooth metal run on smooth metal. However, a more general test with a more crude design and the twisted string actuator might come first, since this is what I'm longing for. >>14328 >Is the pic #3 the one with 'slider lanes' Anon? Yes, pic #3 in >>14327, pic #2 should give you the idea. The screws are like a cross, the two screws in the middle need to slide down further.
>>14299 >Thanks. Looking forward to it. Y/W. Here's the little intro project Anon. (>>14353)
>>14349 Several things kept me from maintaining my speed. First of all, I started to think my current approach through a bit more. I wanted to build an arm out of tubes first. However, even a 18 mm tube might be a bit much for the lower arm. I probably should go with something more like picrel 4 from Hamcat_mmq, but with a motor. I also realized that with my current approach the elbow might get too thick, especially since I want to fit in a motor into the elbow later. I realized that if I don't try to get the full tube size from one part of the arm to the other, then I only need something very similar to two shelf holders connected with a pivot. I actually already tried to build something like Hamcat did, though not very good (picrel 5) While thinking about those things, I got back to work at some point and tried to finish the motor holder (picrel 1-3). Well. I had and still have problems, because I don't know how to properly add skewed parts. I need it to be skewed in relation to the arm (picrel 3). Maybe I can do it with two different parts on the bottom, to connect the tube, which I then screw together. Though, the problem also affected my ability to design a hook (picrel 1-3), which I need to test the whole design. I don't even know if that is going to work. I had the idea to make a hook and hang it onto some knob of my drawer, so I can test the motor. Then I also ordered proper connectors for my ESC, since it needs XT-60 connectors and I only have the breadboard connectors to stick into it, which always fall out when the motor moves wildly around. Though, at least so nothing can go to wrong, since it stops automatically. Finally, my printer has problems again. I managed to get brittle PLA, and I think a part is stuck in the extruder. So I might need to disassemble it once again, or twice if the heat break is clogged again.
>>14373 Turned out my printer is fine. It's just that cheap (and a bit old) PLA filament might get brittle if it rests without being rolled up again: https://youtu.be/SvpSxHLotMI - don't have a Boden tube but direct drive, but this is what happened. Gladly, I was able to push out the broken filament without disassembly. I'm currently working a bit on that lower arm, since I looked at it again and think I can do it. Related: >>14397 I could do more, but I'm watching a bit too much YouTube again...
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>>14399 Looks good, but failed for now. I still think this approach to the lower arm is what I want to go with. However, after printing a miniature version I realized that it is harder to do than I hoped for. Ideal would be some simulation with movements, that marks or even subtracts conflicting parts of the design. The white bone needs to be able to role left and right, but in either case it needs to roll over the blue bone. In the best case, these two would touch each other the hole time, so they would support each other. However, since this might not be necessary, that's one ideal that I should better give up. It might have been the reason why it failed. I might be able to do it without such a simulation, but it will take quite some trial and error. So I should focus on other parts for now. I'll try it again at some point. Being able to print a miniature really helps. This whole thing is generally just part of the bigger ideal of her being very human-like. Making humans is hard. So, maybe I should go with something simpler for the start.
>>14474 Oh, I forgot: Picrel one above is something I gave up on already, but I might need to revive later. Cutting out the white bone from the side, using a Bezier spline. I messed up saving the file after I did that, though. Then I thought I don't need it anyways, which kept me going.
>>14474 wow, that looks like a very clever approach. nice one anon.
>>14474 I made progress with my elbow and arm design, but can't test it right now at nighttime. I already connected the motor mount and tested it, including the strength of the twisted string actuator a little bit. I had to change some parts of the "simple" elbow hinge, which took me some time. Also needed to create some mount to attach the whole thing to my drawer, so I can test the arm (picrel 1). I also started to work on a design for a pelvis (picrel 2 and 3). I planed to use a stl file based on a human bone model, slice it, simplify it and make it malleable with parts in parametric design. But now I started a model from the scratch. Don't know if that will work out, but I can do it now and it might be less stressful. It's just important anyways, that the parts which are visible or perceptible to touch through the skin are similar to a human female. Internally I need to use the space differently, since for example the hips should hold two motors with cycloidal drives.
>>14567 > It's just important anyways, that the parts which are visible or perceptible to touch through the skin are similar to a human female. This. Really good insights, Anon. There's little doubt that doing our best to mimic real female body structures will greatly enhance the pleasure and comfort of owning such a robowaifu.
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>>14567 So, technically the first build of the Genera Plattform moved a limb for the first time today. Some minutes ago. I got the elbow moving, also with various provisional arms attached. Of course, I directly ran into several problems, but it still looks very promising. - The motor is not a servo. It can't measure where it is, nor can the arm signal it to the motor where it is, since there are no sensors at all yet. So, the arm goes up, then I have to turn the motor of and the arm goes down. Not a problem. Won't be the only actuator anyways and I realized that it only needs to lift the arm up to 90°, then a weaker but more precise one can take over. I also plan to track the position of the arm of course, and hope the twisted string actuator will be a bit more controllable that way. With no load, I can even not look at it, only give a brief burst and it is up. - Brings us to the other problem, that my holder for the motor isn't very strong, so if the movement goes to far then it takes the whole thing apart and even twists the cables of the motor. - Last but not least, rewinding the strings is a problem. Though, this might be in part because my test controller for the bldc motor doesn't do reverse. Just adding a counter actuator will definitely not work. The strings can twist so hard that it is difficult to unroll them. The arm going down also doesn't mean that it unrolls. Maybe then sting is to flexible and long. Need to learn more about it.
>>14572 Little clarification: The arm might need to go up 90-180° till another (mybe weaker) motor can take over alone. It depends where it starts and if the shoulder moves as well.
>>14572 >So, technically the first build of the Genera Plattform moved a limb for the first time today. Grats! You're making solid progress now, Anon. I also appreciate the improvisational approach for adapting to the environment for you robowaifu R&D lab, whatever the circumstances! :^)
>>14572 Great job but, your motor mount is very thin for an actuator with the kind of power that bldc can give off. The base would also benefit from being able to pivot. You will need to implement a controller that can reverse and an opposing twisted string so the arm can move forward and back as needed. I also recommend using a non backdrivable geartrain to prevent unwanted unwinding.
>>14592 >motor mount is very thin Yes, I'm going to make it stronger. Currently the problem is rather that it is even only sticked together. Not one print nor welded or glued. PLA is very strong, so I'm not worried about the strength of the part, really. >The base would also benefit from being able to pivot. I don't know how you mean that, but I'm going to watch some TWSA videos, which might have similar advice. >need ... controller that can reverse That I already realized. >and an opposing twisted string That you told me before, but I don't know how yet and not sure if I need it (at this point). The arm would fall down due gravity, just by unrolling the string. It even does so, by stopping the motor, but it doesn't unroll completely. >also recommend using a non backdrivable geartrain to prevent unwanted unwinding. Thanks, I'll look into that.

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