/robowaifu/ - DIY Robot Wives

Advancing robotics to a point where anime catgrill meidos in tiny miniskirts are a reality.

Roadmap: file restoration script within a few days, Final Solution alpha in a couple weeks.

Sorry for not being around for so long, will start getting back to it soon.

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Electronics General Robowaifu Technician 09/11/2019 (Wed) 01:09:50 No.95
Electronics & Circuits Resources general

You can't build a robot w/o good electronics. Post good info about learning, building & using electronics.

The basics of electricity is a good place to start tbh.

From Hackaday:
>Bus Pirate v3 is a universal bus interface that talks to electronics from a PC serial terminal. Get to know a chip without writing code. Poke and prod the inner workings of a sensor without wiring it up to a microcontroller. Eliminates a ton of early prototyping effort with new or unknown chips.

Look into FPGA's for evolutionary hardware and learning computers, they can also replicate functionality of other circuits

Thanks Anon I'll do that.
I took this advice. So far it seems like a good book with lots of useful info. I'm coming from a background of general science enthusiasm so not everything is entirely new to me but I certainly have already learned a few things.

The story has a girl and her tiny robot companion cross dimensions and literally drop into the life of single science nerd guy who never cooks or cleans his one room apt. In exchange for him teaching her all about electricity while she's staying with him she cleans his pig sty up and makes him food. Probably the first time he's ever even had a young woman in his place too. Typical NEET dream come true tbh, though this guy actually works at the university in Tokyo.
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Concise electronics for Geeks
These odd letters were out there, anyone know what it could mean in fact of course?

>tfw don't understand shit about electricity no matter how hard i research
>tfw it's been two years and i still don't understand shit
why are even the most basic concepts in electricity so unintuitive and difficult for me? i can understand pretty much any new topic pretty easily and quickly, except for electronics. am i retarded or something?
I dunno lol
Good links though, thanks.

>am i retarded or something?
Maybe? Considering your post is just a crying Wojak with 0 information about what study methods you use, what material you've read or otherwise used so far, why you're studying electricity and electronics in the first place, or what you hope to accomplish upon mastering this subject. How hard have you really applied yourself? You haven't just been jerking it to anime for the last two years, have you?

I'm just busting your balls. I have a lot of theories about what you're doing wrong and a lot of things that might put you on the right track, but you've got to give us a little more to work with here. Plus, where you at in Japan? Representing Saitama here.
wow rude
no need to take imageboards so seriously anon. what are you even on about?
i said, i can't understand even the basics of electricity and electronics; i can sort of get what current and voltage and such actually ARE but i don't understand how they related to each other and in what ways they need to be controlled. i've read many books and looked at articles online, a bunch of videos too, but i just don't get it.
Think of it like water flowing in a river.
Can you elaborate on that further anon?
NEETS (Navy Electricity and Electronics Training Series)
Thanks anon, good stuff. Bookmarked.
Electricity, like water, flows down the path of least resistance.
I guess that makes sense. Any idea how it knows to do that? Gravity doesn't work on electricity does it?
It's always trying to find its way back to the Earth. Hence why everything has a ground wire/point. It's trying to find a positive charge to balance itself out. It'll always keep flowing until it finds balance.
>Hence why everything has a ground wire/point.
But just like cars, robowaifus aren't attached to the ground with a wire. How do cars or planes work?
Cars and airplanes ground to the chassis. This is why it's important that all parts of the chassis are linked together in some way so the ground is spread out equally among them. In the case of a car you'll sometimes feel a discharge of energy when you leave it. It'll feel like static shock but it's really just stored electricity in the chassis jumping to you and then into the Earth.

I used to install car stereos and we'd add in after market amplifiers. Sometimes we'd install one and get this annoying hum through the speakers. It was caused by a bad ground because the chassis wasn't properly linked together. This is called a ground loop and is caused when electricity is grounded out to two different points. To solve this problem we'd have to put in a solid ground block somewhere in the chassis of the car and ensure everything was properly grounded to it using only one connection.

A robowaifu would have a similar set-up. You could ground everything to one block and allow her to ground herself to the Earth when she was in contact with it. You'd have to take care the everything was grounded properly not to cause problems.
So, that chassis is a ground? Then electricity in a robowaifu would flow back into that? It's a little hard to understand. Also, when a plane lands is there a little lightning bolt or something when it lands?
I don't know how planes work because I've never worked or operated one but I imagine it's similar to cars. Yes, the chassis would be your ground. As long as you're not allowing energy to flow back into the circuit all is well. This is why one ground point is important. There are a lot of devices you own that use a chassis ground with no external ground that you probably aren't even aware of.

You're imagining a large build up of electricity because there is no ground to Earth. The build up even in a car is minimal. The important thing is you don't want to create loops (multiple grounds to chassis) to avoid problems like I mentioned with the stereo humming.

A robowaifu isn't going to require too much power to run. You'll probably be looking at 12 volts which is comparable to a car. You don't really have to worry about hard grounds to Earth unless you're looking to ground power from the mains or a lighting bolt.

This video can probably explain better than I can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-W42tk-fWc

I'm not an expert on this subject I just know how electricity works well enough to do my own wiring, repair/build my own electronics, and work on my house without burning the place to the ground.
I see where you might be not understanding me now. I forgot to mention that while the chassis is the ground it's also connected to the battery as well. By that I mean the battery is grounded to the chassis along with the main ground wire from the rest of the electronics in the car. So by grounding to the chassis you're routing the power back to the positive terminal of your power source (in this case, the battery).

A robowaifu would use a similar set-up.
Negative. I need sleep. Also I should mention that using the chassis saves you wiring. It's possible to ground without it in a car but you'll be adding double the wiring.
Alright thanks anon. I'll watch the video.
It's a good video. I actually learned some things I didn't know myself. Electricity isn't something to just fool around with but I'll admit to having done it and gotten zapped for my trouble multiple times. It isn't complicated or magic you just have to start working with it to understand the basics. Forget volts, amps, and ohms for the moment and just try to understand that electricity always flows in a loop down the most easy path it can find.

Also, the video deals with AC power. A robowaifu will probably use DC power which is simpler to work with and understand. I'm thinking robowaifus will be powered by a simple battery and be recharged from the mains until something better can be worked out.
>I'm thinking robowaifus will be powered by a simple battery and be recharged from the mains until something better can be worked out.
Yeah, I think you're right. Chii from Chobits was just plugged into a wall pack to recharge. I think they also had a small charge coming from solar. Thanks again anon.
There's a guy named Bean Eater who built an 8-bit computer from scratch using breadboards and commonly available chips--but no microprocessor chip. I've gone through almost all of it now and it's pretty interesting and I've learned a lot about computer internal operations I never grasped too well before. I'd recommend it for any robowaifuists who are tackling the electronics side of things.
Building an 8-bit breadboard computer!
Digital electronics tutorial

He's also currently working on a tutorial for building a computer from scratch using the modern variant of the classic 6502 chip.
Build a 65c02-based computer from scratch
BTW, this guy uploads 4K videos mixed in with the more normal-sized ones which brings my little box to it's knees and ruins the playback. Here's how I limited the video download size to the best 1080p quality for the 8-bit breadboard computer playlist:
youtube-dl -f 'bestvideo[height<=1080]+bestaudio/best[height<=1080]' -i https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLowKtXNTBypGqImE405J2565dvjafglHU

Substitute the list at the end for w/e other playlist the guy provides to also limit that one to only 1080p.
One other thing, there were these alpha-numeric characters out there. No telling what they mean tbh, but w/e maybe someone can decode them or something. :^)
Digital Logic Simulator 'game'
The author calls it a game, but at the least it seems to me to be a decent learning tool for digital logic.

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>>843 I'm all for a LTO (Lithium Titanate) battery that recharges via USB C. LTO batteries are the longest lasting batteries in terms of charge and discharge. She'll last for like 20 to 30 years before needing a new battery. USB C is the ideal power delivery option as it's simple cheap and will be used for decades to come. Would also be cute as a tail.
>>1874 Yes, that's the right kind of batteries. For bots which can't be opened easily at least. For a tail I would choose lighter ones 😉 For starters in electronics I uploaded a book, which maybe I should read myself finally. Why do days only have 24h?
>>1874 >USB C is the ideal power delivery option as it's simple cheap and will be used for decades to come. Good thinking. >Would also be cute as a tail. Kek >>4332 >For bots which can't be opened easily at least. For a tail I would choose lighter ones 😉 Any chance you could give us some kind of data about the power/weight for readily available different types of batteries Anon? Is that something you have access to that could help us?
>>4340 I looked into that a while ago, mainly on Wikipedia. I found some other sites then as well, also videos on Youtube. You can spend days or weeks to read and watch stuff about that, especially if you start to be interested in others, like for cars and solar cells... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_battery_types Here the rechargeable types, with comparisons: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rechargeable_battery My takeaway is using LTOs (Lithium-Titaniumoxide) for bots where you won't able to replace the batteries at all or only with a lot of effort. These are the ones you can recharge the most often before the become trash. They're a bit heavier for the same energy density. But, they also are safer than Litium-Ion bc more stable and less sensitive to destruction. Sometimes they invent new ones, so there might be something better now. Batteries out of plastics will be interesting, if the can be recharged often. We might be able to make bones out of such material at some point. For bots where you can replace the batteries easily cheap ones which need to be replaced more often might be better. Nickel-Cadmium even, not sure. I don't like Li-Ion bc they can start to burn much easier on their own. Ultracaps or Supercaps, which are not batteries, for extra power from higher voltage or low variable voltage with fast recharging. Could be interesting for motors which run on 24V/48V, 24V/12V or 12V/6V for example. Waifu might only need the motor with 48V sometimes for getting up or lifting, other stuff might need 20V max. Computer which needs 12V might turn off at some point, the other one which needs 6V could still operate for chat an tell master that waifu needs to be plugged in.
>>4385 Oh, I only realised now that the article and list on rechargable batteries on Wikipedia doesn't even mention LTOs. I don't remember where I read about comparisons then, though most likely it has been the German version of Wikipedia. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium-titanate_battery Also, I probably meant NiMH or NiFe in the comment above, not Nickel-Cadmium, for the best use and dump batteries. But I don't remember exactly. The prices change anyways and Li-Ion might have become a bit safer now. Litium-IronPhosphate could also be interesting, less life cycles than LTOs but more energy density. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_iron_phosphate_battery You need to look for recharge cycles, energy density, durability over time maybe, stability, price of course, recharge speed maybe, volume might also matter, etc.
>>4385 >You can spend days or weeks to read and watch stuff about that, especially if you start to be interested in others, like for cars and solar cells... Thanks for saving us all some time then. That's one of /robowaifu/'s purposes: to be a central repository of valuable information so we can all find that information handily. Appreciate the research and report Anon. Please keep it up! :^) >Batteries out of plastics will be interesting, if the can be recharged often. We might be able to make bones out of such material at some point. I think I remember reading about research investigating the concept of thin-film sheet batteries, and ones that are formed into arbitrary shapes also. There's certainly plenty of room for improvement, and thankfully there's also a broad, general economic incentive in many, many industries to improve them. It will be interesting to see what's new in the future for small, lightweight energy storage system in the future.
I mentioned https://batteryuniversity.com/ as a good resource on batteries here: >>4391 which is the thread for more on batteries. Another great site for learning about electronics is this here: https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/textbook/ https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/video-tutorials/ https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/worksheets/ https://www.allaboutcircuits.com/forums If you wanna learn about that, maybe make one of them your startpage or put them on "speed dial"-page, for not getting distracted by less important stuff. But, don't forget about this site here!
>>4415 Thanks Anon, these links are appreciated.
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I'm currently looking into potentiometers. We might need those in many joints of our waifus to measure the movement. I'm quite sure this is better than using lots of encoded servos, especially if we have some alternative muscles as well. Saw this first in one of Will Cogleys video about hands here: https://youtu.be/-zqZ-izx-7w In the comments someone explained that these a common, but go as position sensors! They seem to wear of quite fast, though. So they might not be the best solution. Trying to accumulate some knowledge about potentiometers and such today, things like size and durability. Need to order them in advance from China and didn't know which ones, though they're cheap anyways. Digital multi-turn pot: https://youtu.be/vPzDs2AdFeg Hall effect sensors might be a better alternative: https://youtu.be/wpAA3qeOYiI For bigger joints, crankshaft sensors might work, which seem to be hall effect sensors as well, and they are available for cars and build to be very durable: https://youtu.be/HRbk-YFIMXE
>>4731 Also got this explanation of hall effect and crank shaft sensors: https://youtu.be/isYmSB3RqWM Someone in my conversation suggested rotary encoders, which are normally in the servos, but they might be available separate or could be build. It's was meant as pointing to a general concept, they can use light, magnetism, mechanics or hall effect. Simple version would be an led which is visible sometimes, and then not. Then there would be RVDT, which is used in avionics. Didn't look into that, yet. I thought about gyros and accelerometers, but they are expensive and don't return absolute data, need to know a starting point an to be integrated over time. Here more about human sensing of movement: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proprioception
>>4731 >>4732 Nice research on your part Anon. So yes, we'll need accurate angle encoding for the differing elements of the limbs, for example, to be able to make accurate (and realtime) analysis of the current kinematic dynamics going on atm. For walking, say, or picking up a pot from the stove. The kinematic/physics calculations need those angles (and rate of dynamic changes) to be able to predict the mass-moment changes for the thrown-weight of the entire mechanism as a unit. For example, the torques and dynamics on a shoulder will be different depending on the angle of the lower arm, and whether any additional external mass is being managed at the end of that extremity (picking up a pot of water, say). Nice to see you also consider things like durability and environmental operating conditions of the components. A) All engineering is a series of compromises/tradeoffs, and B) No one 'outsmarts' the laws of physics. You adapt to them, or you fail.
>>4736 Interesting, what I wonder about for a while is how accurate these informations really need to be. Humans seem not to work that way, I don't know if my arm is 2cm higher or lower. My current working assumption is, we don't need to be very precise. We need a fast reaction and adaption to weight for example. Exact actions of the hands need to be controlled by visual input and sensory input from the hands. Trying to use concepts which are meant for industrial robots without sensors will only make it more difficult.
>>4731 Position sensors again: This madman here with his amazing robot looked into the same problem a while ago: https://youtu.be/KN4wAZHtbzc
Memristors (Speech from 2018): https://youtu.be/Y6ab32SRRoE Interesting alternative to current electronics for neuronal networks. More similar to neurons. Might help to build a AI which can detect outliers in data, which current systems seem to be bad at (well this was 2018). Here the newer video of setting up a Memristor discovery platform for learning about this stuff: https://youtu.be/mkIdxMKrJFE which they are selling here https://knowm.com/products/memristor-discovery-board-chip-manual only the last 5 min of the video might be interesting. Java SDK, Mac/Win/Linux, some cables, osziloscope, ... Actually using it is shown here and explained to some extend: https://youtu.be/hb3FF7QIgs8 which seems to be more difficult sometimes than doing it in software... but fascinating. I don't know no where to discuss newer developments of the outlier problems in current AI software, please keep in mind this here is the thread on electronics. Further discussion on that problem might fit better in some other thread and then link from here to there.
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GIGATRON 9'000 (OK, it's not really called that, but it sounds cool). https://gigatron.io/?p=2230
This is apparently one of the Chinese manufacturers of custom, made-to-order PCBs. I don't know much about that stuff yet, but I found this so I thought I'd link them here. If the EE guys want maybe they can tell us what they think of them. https://www.pcbway.com/ I like the idea of building custom, inexpensive electronics & controllers etc. specifically engineered for our robowaifus someday. But my guess is we'll need to stick with commonly manufactured parts during these days of the robowaifu industry. Anyway, just storing this here so I can find it again someday.

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