/sw/ - Star Wars

The Empire did nothing wrong

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Unpopular Opinion Thread Stormtrooper 12/24/2019 (Tue) 03:28:37 No.1253
I'll start, there is literally nothing wrong with Ewoks
>>1608 Can't have any new characters be good on their own, they have to somehow be goodest and bestest at everything and "own" those old outdated bad characters effortlessly, huh? It's like fucking fanficition, all of these writers and whoever were fanfiction writers. How else do you explain >New characters that are inexplicably good at everything, more so than others previously established characters >New characters that are completely faultless, every mistake they make either turns out not to be a mistake eventually, or it was entirely not their fault, and they have incredibly retarded "flaws" that don't go anywhere. They're too kind, never too naive. They're too emotional, never too irrational or short tempered. She's too ugly, never a monster or deformed beast. >New characters who are inexplicably central to the plot and gets to hang out and banter and talk back to and effortlessly beat previously established characters because they're just that great It boils my blood to an insane degree how these writers seem to be mass produced out of some defective mold and then given jobs at the most overproduced and richest movie productions on the planet. Every character has to be physically untouchable, no character can have strengths other than beating everyone up. Every character has to be the comic relief, can't have a single second without deflating tension. Every character has to be a snarky cunt, because you can be a snarky cunt in the military, in politics and in every situation like you're writing an epic twitter post to "own" someone. No one can deviate from this template, you can't have noble and honorable characters, or deadpan characters, or cowards completely concerned with their survival, or imposing villains, or characters whose strengths lie in manipulating people or machines, or sneaky rogues, or anything. Jesus Christ, when you're making me think of the fucking Darksiders characters as superior writing I want to burn a studio lot. These are all flaws I noticed very early in my writing which is why I stopped writing at a young age, when I was writing fucking fanfiction because I never had the heart to make my character flawed in a meaningful way(because I was, implicitly or explicitly self inserting) or have them take a meaningful loss, you're telling me I could be writing for Disney and making those hollywood big bucks if I continued?
>>1608 >he doesn't just force choke the bitch I wonder how much soy and nigger semen the person that wrote that ingests daily.
>>1613 Apparently that cave has something to disable the force or something, and just by chance Vader couldn't sense or counter this in any way.
>>1614 Even when that was a thing in Heir to the Empire the first thing Luke did after waking up in captivity was notice his disconnection from the force. It really amazes me how they just nuked the entire EU instead of picking out the "good" aspects of it and leaving out the rest.
>>1614 then Vader should avoid the cave, or find a workaround. as >>1615 said, while Zahn used this device, there were rules and limitations to it. simply cancelling the Force whenever you feel like owning a force-user is lazy and contrived. >>1612 you're more correct than you know. you might recall a particular breed of lolcow who used to be on livejournal/deviantart/tumblr, who would write shitty fanfiction and draw shitty fan-art. they were known for having inflated egos, and throwing tantrums in response to criticism. those people never grew up or improved, they became SJWs and infiltrated creative industries; they achieved their dreams in spite of being seriously underqualified, and are now in the process of burning down entertainment media and vandalizing everything of quality that existed before them. it's easy to see their roots, notice how they're all familiar with 'shipping' or making up relationships between characters (eg the reylo tards), which was very popular on tumblr and earlier platforms. so yes, we're literally dealing with fanfic writers and tartlets having control of established IPs. enjoy the ride.
filoni is a furfag piece of shit who has never made anything worth watching and his cocksuckers should be burned alive
>>1611 Her obnoxious quipping and smugness, to the point of actually taking a jab at Vader's childhood is just really fucking disrespectful. They had him both physically and emotionally humiliated for the sake of glorifying some lesbian asian archeologist with no force powers or above average combat training.
>>1623 As they say, Yiff in Hell Furfags
>>1628 Like I said, they're fanfiction writers and their characters are the bestest ever at everything and also get to hang out with all the characters just because. I really want to see a comic or an anime or a whatever where a bunch of fanfiction tier characters are all shoved into one universe and they all try to outdo each other in everything.
>>1631 Its kinda hard to keep the characters in that "fanfiction state" then. They literally default to normal characters if you equalize them. Overpowered ones sure, but when super is the standard than its no longer impressive.
>>1614 >a powerful force user couldn't tell when his connection to the force was cut off Got to stuff in as much plot convenience as possible so their latest mary sue can effortlessly own those ebil huwite straight men.
>>1632 reminds me of a webcomic I once read, where Hogwarts creates a fifth house to contain all the mary-sues. btw, the entire mainstream comics industry is pozzed, and Marvel is super-infected. the only source of good comics now is Comicsgate.
>>1637 Didn't comicsgate degenerate into a bunch of SJW-lite grifters causing constant drama over each other?
>>1639 there's definitely drama, but they've also had successful campaigns for quality books. currently CG is the best hope for the future of comics, warts and all.
I'll let you in on a really niche opinion of mine: the concept of a shared fictional universe is inherently harmful to the purpose of narrative. It's bad enough that stories born in this captivity always end up being variations of the original formula. But it also feeds the unhealthy and hyper-materialist idea that fiction is a physical, instead of a mental thing.
>>1641 I think it's inherently harmful because everyone wants to do the Marvel thing where they sell you however many little stories before raping your eyes and brain with a big blockbuster movie, but that never worked back then even because having this supposed shared fictional universe go through a billion near-world ending events and nothing remotely interesting coming out of it is idiotic. And it gives hack writers an excuse to write terrible characters because every single character is going to get their own movie or show or whathaveyou eventually so why bother.
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>>1641 Overall you're correct, but there are a few highly noteworthy exceptions where the original material was thematically weak, and the expanded material was not only god-tier in its own right, but adds poetic meaning to the original work.
>>1324 >FOR A CASH GRAB Considering SW always had toys, technically it was always a cash grab. >>1335 <He lowered the bar for kids, that's different. You prequel suckers are exactly the same thing PT is more mature and complicated than the OT simple story of a peasant becoming a knight, I mean Jedi and defeating the evil Kingdom, I mean the Empire. Now compare that to tragedy of an hero falling from grace as an evil empire is on the rise manipulating both the opposing movements/regimes which are at war. <kids in the 80s didn't see nothing wrong with the ewoks https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KS6aOZ-11M0
>>1628 >quippping I hate this shit so much everyone does it nowadays in writing characters. Joss Whedon has many things to pay for and this is one of them.
>>1647 When Halo was good.
>>1656 When everyone's super the comedy relief, no one is.
>>1656 I'm sick to death of snark.
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>>1661 Oh? Guess you're a zombie then.
>>1648 >tragedy of an hero falling from grace as an evil empire is on the rise The roads of hell are paved with good intentions. I'm pretty sure there's tons of SW clones and ripoffs which imagined Vader's rise to power in a better way, from comics to anime.
>>1664 It isn't even funny!
>>1253 I wouldn't exactly call it unpopular since it seems pretty even split among EU fans, but the Vong were horrible, stupidly overpowered and too extreme to be fun or enjoyable in the setting. I would have been fine if the EU books shifted to concentrating on smaller conflicts, instead of needing the ENTIRE galaxy go to war again. There could be countless minor wars between systems/planets/clusters/corporations that could be a focus for several books before moving on to something else. Also Ewoks only don't work if you just think of them as not being strong. Their muscle density could be crazy like a chimp's, who look cute until they feel threatened and rip you hands and jaw off. I do think an army of wookies would have been cooler tho.
>>1682 >the Vong were horrible, stupidly overpowered and too extreme to be fun or enjoyable in the setting. I've argued this point on here before. they break the universe, they're too grimdark and feel like something out of WH40k, and they're basically an HG Wells esque alien invasion which doesn't fit thematically. if you're going to unleash chaos, that should be done thousands of years BBY, not shortly after the OT. on top of all this, the Vong subvert the OT, because their invasion makes it so that the galaxy would've been better off under the Empire, and I can't accept anything that makes the OT meaningless.
>>1685 > I can't accept anything that makes the OT meaningless. But the New Republic wins through and continues it's march of power. That's not meaningless. And Sheev also being right is perhaps my favorite quirk to the entire EU, and enhances the OT Empire by giving it motives for it's actions beyond "muh evil."
>>1688 >and enhances the OT Empire by giving it motives for it's actions beyond "muh evil." Didn't it already have motive for its actions besides that? The Empire was popular for bringing order back to the Outer Rim, cracking down on criminal gangs, and maneuvering through the petty feuds and bickering SERIOUS DISCUSSIONS that were plaguing the Senate. There's a reason the declaration of a new order was met with thunderous applause at first, and why people continued to fight for the ideals of the Empire even after Palpatine kicked the bucket.
>>1692 yes, the Republic was overly bureaucratic, corrupt, and didn't maintain law & order effectively enough. there were valid reasons for the rise of Empire, and although they're unequivocally portrayed as villains in the OT, there are much better ways of developing moral ambiguity than all-out subversion and chaos. >>1688 they win, but only after numerous shoahs, the ruination of significant worlds, and a galaxy-wide marathon of torture porn; all because the New Republic was unprepared for the invasion. if the Empire had won, their militarized society would've been far more effective at holding off the Vong, especially with a working Death Star or two, which would've been ideal for taking out worldships. this means that the galaxy would've been better off under an Imperial victory, which negates the achievements of the Rebels and Luke. there's no point to them winning if it only makes matters worse all around. the OT is about good overcoming evil, and the underdogs defeating a larger, hubristic enemy. while you can introduce complexities to this, it should not be subverted, especially not with nukes made of rape. and as I said, the Vong have other problems. they rely on biotech, yet they're immune to the Force, in spite of the fundamental link between the Force and all forms of life. it just doesn't work. I reiterate, the Vong make it so that the OT had a bad ending, and Sheev stood for the greater good. I simply can't accept it, no more than I can accept the Empire being magically resurrected as the First Order, Luke becoming a bitter hermit, massive logic breaks, and Sheev ultimately winning by extinguishing the Skywalker/Solo lines, and working through his OP daughter who also usurps the Skywalker lineage, until Sheev eventually reincarnates and takes over the galaxy again. some things are too much.
>>1692 >cracking down on criminal ganags Its always been part of the EU that the Empire worked with the big crime syndicates because they needed brutal enforcers that weren't officially associated with them and because the Outer Rim wasn't easy to manage, especially in a civil war.
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I never hated Jar Jar Binks and I never will. I guess one's feelings about him depend mainly on the first impression and I loved seeing him fool around when I first watched TPM as a kid.
>>2320 I was kind of indifferent to him. At worst he was mildly annoying. Otherwise, I never felt the same hatred that people had for him. Same for the Ewoks.
>>1423 > the wookies would have been larger unarmored targets >making them easier to get killed by blaster fire >this makes it harder to believe they were just harmless victims of the Empire.
>>1454 >I personally don't see why midichlorians triggered so much outrage, they never bothered me Part of the Star Wars fandom see the Jedi as a real religion and take it seriously. They saw it as a heresy when instead of gaining power by understanding Force Theology, being strong in the Force was just like DBZ with Power levels. Also Luke triumphs in the OT over Vader and the Emperor, because he becomes morally superior and more spiritually enlightened. This arc falls flat on its face when any Force user could best Luke, simply because he is the borne √úbermensch with high Midichlorian levels. This goes against decades of public post WW2 indoctrination.
>>2356 It also makes the force seem less mystical and leads to a whole lot of other questions. Could people get midichlorian injections to become stronger? What if you clone people with a high midichlorian count?
>>2356 >>2360 The way I see Midichlorians is they are not the source of the Force but are connected to it. Like it's a sign you have it but it ultimately doesn't mean you can control the force with it. Also, I don't think you can transplant midichlorians into a non-force user and expect them to get Force powers.
>>2320 Jar Jar Binks is designed for kids, and he does well in that role. the problem is that Star Wars is supposed to be for all ages, not just for kids, and that's where Phantom Menace went astray. >>2356 >Part of the Star Wars fandom see the Jedi as a real religion and take it seriously. They saw it as a heresy when instead of gaining power by understanding Force Theology, being strong in the Force was just like DBZ with Power levels. >It also makes the force seem less mystical and leads to a whole lot of other questions. Could people get midichlorian injections to become stronger? What if you clone people with a high midichlorian count? these posts really sum up the central problem of midichlorians -- they undermine the spiritual interpretation of the Force. the concept always bothered me, but I couldn't quite articulate why it did. finally, you guys nailed it. >>2355 I'm still divided on wookies vs ewoks. on one hand, it would've made sense for the Empire to use them as slave labor for Death Star II, and given how strong and intelligent they are, they'd be much more believable as an effective insurgency. on the other hand, for the Empire to overlook the dangers of wookies would be careless on their part, while ignoring & underestimating the ewoks is understandable.
>>2361 >midichlorians grow in/are attracted to force sensitive people Yeah, that's the theory I go with too. Still, TPM made it sound like: >Midichlorians give you the force I can understand why most people hated that line and nothing in the movies ever really contradicts it.
>>1423 I just pictured gangsta wookies in my head performing drive by shootings
>>2365 Wearing bandanas and holding their bowcaster sideways?
>>2366 Probably an edit of that somewhere on the Internet already
>>2368 https://youtu.be/W3nQvaP0BXg I'd love to hear some wookie rap.
>>2361 That's also the interpretation I take. I don't think it's the interpretation George takes, but it's the one that makes the most sense.
>>2384 I'm pretty sure that's what George meant by it, too.
>>1608 >Don't mess with an archeologist in a "spooky ol ruin" <An archelogist actually calling a site a "spooky ruin" Ancient History studies here: No self-respecting archaeologist uses such unscientific words unless they're posing for the camera, reading off a script for a documentary/movie, its habitually discouraged. Also >Takes down Vader without him being able to do shit or speak coherently <Old Canon has him lose his respirator to damage and still beat his opponent. This is worse than that kid who reprogrammed the ED-209 in Robocop 3 in less than 5 minutes. Lastly A) His cybernetics consist of metal prosthetics - no internet or other "hacking" applicable B) His respirator - essentially a normal hospital system (the inspiration for his iconic breathing) made super-compact and durable - no internet or hacking applicable C) His Helmet/Mask which enhanced his sensory abilities similar to the Stormtrooper helms. There is likely a computer system there that connects to his other parts but judging from what I've seen you can't really hack into it, since its not directly uplinked to anything. All in all, this dumb bitch shouldn't have been able to hack into anything. At least with Vader's suit-maker that guy had access to kill-switches and shit, but that didn't work out all too well either. His agony and sheer anger from being used like this should have given Vader, one of the most powerful Sith Lords, the will to crush her on the spot seeing how it let Darth Maul survive being bisected. I can only hope that they can redeem this by having a "got ya bitch" moment, where he reveals to have been playing along - and then kills her when she no longer is useful. Fuck me, even the Godzilla animated series from 1998 was smart enough to not have Randy hack into robotics that have no computer or internet parts in them unless he was directly plugged in.
>>1614 >that cave has something to disable the force Compare this idiocy to the fact that the comics of Lucas prequels explained that the Jedi built their temple on top of a Sith temple and it clouded their vision, helping Palpatine hide himself. THAT made a modicum of sense unlike "Super special cave from fuck knows where can turn off the force... which flows through all things and isn't just some energy that can be turned off forcibly.
>>2356 >This arc falls flat on its face when any Force user could best Luke, simply because he is the borne √úbermensch with high Midichlorian levels Except, as demonstrated within the prequels, midichlorian levels are just arbitrary power-wells. How you use it, the skill you have and more importantly the intent, is what gives someone an upper hand.
>>2795 >Godzilla cartoon from 1998 I'm surprised people still remember that one. I remember when Randy was able to hack into a nuclear power plant. You can get rid of this if you think it's too distracting from the thread.

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