/sw/ - Star Wars

The Empire did nothing wrong

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Stormtrooper 02/09/2020 (Sun) 19:12:11 No.2523
Was the Death Star a good idea?
>>2523 Not for Alderaan.
No. A few Star Destroyers or even a redirected asteroid do the job of purging a planet clean of life just fine without exploding it's resources and territory into space dust. Tarkin was wrong.
Also having a big fucking target housing a big chunk of your army as a morale boost is a fatal flaw.
It was actually meant to be a large space nursery. Rebels killed loads of kids that day.
>>2527 >he actually thinks a tiny rebellion destroyed a superweapon
>>2528 Are you saying it was an inside job?
The DS-1 mining station was a highly effective tool for ore extraction until the rebels hijacked it and turned it against the civilians population of Alderaan. Don't believe every piece of insurgent propaganda you see on unsecured holonet bands. Be mindful that terrorist sympathies are a crime under Imperial law.
>>2529 Look at the data. Two tiny proton torpedoes can't blow up a moon sized space station.
>ISB staged the destruction of the Death Star so they had the excuse to invade Iraq Bespin and secure supplies of tibanna gas At last I truly see!
>>2529 No, there'd be no benefit of killing thousands of their own soldiers. It was a chain reactor failure from the incompetence of poorly trained technicians as well as using cheaper materials to cut down on costs. The Emperor was going to have his weapon under budget and ahead of schedule. Of course this was covered up since it'd make the Empire pathetic.
Lel, fuck no. When I'm playing as the Empire in Rebellion I never build them unless I'm winning way too hard to be stopped anyway. The only thing it's good for is destroying a heavily fortified Rebel HQ because it costs you so much public support, and if you have enough public support to be able to afford to use it, you've pretty much already won. It only makes sense as Kuat Drive Yards and other influential companies making up the biggest boondoggle they can because they want more money shoveled in their general direction.
Honestly, it was a bad idea as far as peace keeping and counter terrorism efforts go since you couldn't really use it to its full potential without giving yourself the worst PR possible and if you never use it like that then its just a hilariously expensive space station that can move. In conventional warefare you can use it better, but its also a really big target and using the big laser is still gonna net your terrible PR. The only thing this would have had genuine use for is against the Vong; where it would have cleaned house without worrying about plebs screeching about muh dead innocent worlds.
>>2535 >space station that can move The Death Star isn't a space station. It's not stationary, so it's just a massive ship.
>>2537 >The Death Star isn't a space station. It's not stationary, so it's just a massive ship. Space stations do have the ability to move under their own power though- how the hell do you think they maintain orbit? The main difference is more intent than anything else.
>>2523 No. After all you can just hook the planet destroying gun to a star destroyer and mass produce them with the power of the dark side without the need of little things like resources or factories.
>>2538 Maintaining orbit with translational thrusters every now and then and flying around through fucking space are two different things. If it does the latter, it's not staying still or in orbit, and if it's not staying still or in orbit, it's not a fucking space station. You break that definition and it's fair game to call any ship with docking modules for other ships a space station.
>>2523 Yes for several reasons as a deterrent, the fact that the main cannon can be set to a less damaging setting for controlled destruction of enemy strong holds, destruction of partisans/terrorists and of course useful against the vong. >>2535 Fear will keep the other star systems in line.
>>2540 So if they decide to move the space station to another system under it's own power, it no longer qualifies as one? Because let's be honest here, in a world where interstellar travel is so commonplace as to be barely longer than a road trip most of the time- putting those same propulsion systems on an orbital dry dock or mining station is going to be pretty trivial to the point there'd be little reason not to. After all, you don't want lose millions just because you can't move your station somewhere else when the enemy invades or the local economy goes bust.
Removing rebel scum is always a good idea.
>>2544 You build a space station in a specific place for to be. Stations are places, not vehicles. There's no problem in the Death Star being able to move, but it's inherently wrong to call it a term that literally means "it doesn't move". Besides Capital Ships are already mobile bases, as they can carry entire armies just fine. If the ISS was made to fly around in space, it'd be a ship. But it isn't, since it was made to stay up there in orbit. It was built to stay there and there it will stay until called for it's decommissioned.
So if the Empires plan was to cause autistic shitfits about the definition of a space station then it exceeded all expectations.
>>2549 >while we've all been arguing they've already positioned it in orbit ready to blow up the planet fuck
>>2555 That's a funny idea for a comic, can we get a drawfag on this?
Yes, to a degree. It's basically a moving planetoid impervious to a whole fleet fire, capable of destroying any shielded barrier, carrying own it's own more than a whole fleet of troops and vehicles is capable. The "superlaser planet destroying thing" is more useful as a last resort and WMD threat. You just need to blast some unhabited planet and show in the Holonet and that would be enough to make everyone think twice before engaging in mass revolts capable of ousting a planetary governor. The whole idea of blasting Alderaan, as a first target, was beyond retarded. Their support of the rebellion wasn't that vital to the point of destroying a founding, core world full of rich people. It was, as it was show, a massive PR failure. If people move beyond the point of desperation (If they blew up a place like Alderaan, why we would cower in fear? We have nothing else to lose).
>>2529 ReOpen0BBY
>>4640 Nobody gave a fuck about Alderaan, not even Lea, hell she was sleeping soundly in her cell. That core planet was full of millions -not even billions- of rich stock up people with their terrorist dogs and got what they deserve.
>>4650 Yes yes, that's the party line. But have you heard the Radio drama? Also, you're forgetting that Alderaan is spoken of for decades afterward. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-29uKdckL4 The problem is that Alderaan's destruction combined with the failure at Yavin means that the backlash was given an extra push. People have a much easier time letting out their anger when the sword of Damocles is gone.
>>4652 >you're forgetting that Alderaan is spoken of for decades afterward. Used for political propaganda just like the many bothans deaths. >radio drama >4 hours I will will save it for later.
>>4650 Alderaan had 2 billion people. The support for the rebellion there would be amount to what? Thousands? Hundreds of thousands? A whole founder planet which was a showcase of progress wiped out because Tarkin was a moron. If they were keen to solve the situation, they just needed to depose the Organas after the Senate was dissoluted and put some loyalist or moff in charge. >The plan drastically backfired, driving thousands of beings to the Alliance cause, even in the Core Worlds, and sending many planets in the Mid Rim into open rebellion. A number of Alderaanians serving in the Imperial military defected to the Rebel Alliance after learning of their homeworld's destruction; among the defectors was the TIE fighter pilot Tycho Celchu. The Imperials attempted to pin the blame for Alderaan's destruction on the Rebels, keeping a small number of people loyal to the Empire; however, the ruse convinced few. Alderaanians were influential in the politics and military since forever. It was like one of those soviet purges that fucked up the whole military by killing some of the best officers around.
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>>4657 >Alderaan had 2 billion people. Fake rebel propaganda. Tarkin did nothing wrong, it was better to blow up an entire planet than sacrificing troop lives trying to pacify it.
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>DS thread So, lets do some infinities here... What would have happened if the Emperor and Vader died but the DS didn't blow up, the fleet didn't scattered. The rebels failed to disable the shield generator. Luke would be able to escape the DS? The rebels would be able to rebuild their fleet in time to take advantage of the chaos caused by the emperor's death? The Empire would devolve in civil war just like it did in the original scenario? Who would be the one capable being Emperor? Also have a Coruscant guard doing a power stance with some explosions in the background.
>>2523 As a symbol or flagship, absolutely. As a practical weapon of any kind, absolutely not.
>>4940 Well, it was a good fleet buster. The conventional weaponry was enough to reduce an opposing fleet to molten slag. >the exhaust port You needed a magical space knight in training to do the shot, plus Solo removing Vader from the board that is it was the fucking universal field doing the stunt >30 rebel fighters The guys in charge of DS were retards. They had TIEs to spare, they should simple drown the rebels in TIE fire. And the turbolasers also got some, being sluggish as they were
a major reason was deterrence. if opposing factions know you have a WMD, they're far less likely to revolt. of course, they had to demonstrate its powers at least once, otherwise it would be dismissed as a hoax or propaganda. as for Alderaan, that place was thinly populated, having a global population only in the millions, and was an absolute hotbed of Rebel support. it was unfortunate that they had to waste such good real estate in the process, but I can see their reasoning. of course, many sentients joined the Rebel cause in direct response, but that was a miscalculation on their part. keep in mind also, as we saw during the Battle of Endor, the Death Star didn't have to use all-out destructive power. it's capable of firing much more frequent underpowered shots, which are ideal for taking out capital ships. in general, the Empire was top-heavy, and followed the philosophy of bigger = better. if nothing else, building a space-station/superweapon was in character for them.
>>4973 Pulling from memory but the toned down super laser used against capital ships was a DS2 innovation, the original DS only had the planet buster option, plus took a whole day to recharge it. But the conventional, turbolaser weaponry was more than enough to deal with capital ships.
>>2523 Yes. It would have stopped the vong.
>>5005 Even basic ISDs, AT-ATs and stormtroopers would had stopped the vong, they gained the upper hand because the New Republic was lead by morons >jihadi rapefugees destroying everything in their path >they also went bonkers when faced with droids >instead of going full CSI and churning quintillions of battle droids or going full Clone Wars and using clone fodder they rely on low scale recruitment, rebellion era tactics and stupid weak capital ships instead of producing ISDs all over due "muh don't want to use anything that resembles the old Empire"
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>>5005 They didn't listen.
>>5009 >that last thing Wait, was that literally the reason given?
>>5013 >Ignoring Imperial design philosophy and opting for a larger number of smaller ship-designs, the New Republic built fleet carriers, Republic-class Star Destroyers and smaller battle cruisers, shying away from Super Star Destroyer-sized warships.[1] However, the Navy's fleets were designed as response forces and, despite the concerns of some politicians during the launch of the Fifth Fleet, not a tool of conquest. The lessons learned from the Black Fleet Crisis eventually took form as the Star Defender program, which had its own set of detractors and moved ahead slowly.[2 They did used some captured ISDs and SSDs but basically dropped the design as they did with TIEs and the stormtrooper corps.
>>5005 as I said in another thread, the Vong are fake news that don't belong in Star Wars. there are many reasons for this (biowankery yet immune to the Force, aesthetic clash, too disruptive, etc) but the most important is that they subvert the OT. the Vong invasion means that it would've been better for the Empire to win, which is something I can't accept.
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>>5016 >aesthetic clash, too disruptive, etc) I guess they were too foreigner to the galaxy. >it would've been better for the Empire to win, which is something I can't accept. >implying they did anything wrong if you only consider the OT Also, there were other filthy extragalactic xenos that invaded the Galaxy, anon.
>>5018 They were pretty weird in their own right, too. Yuuzhan Vong are the Steppe nightmare in Spess. Not too hard to grok, really.
>>5018 >implying they did anything wrong if you only consider the OT They did nothing wrong in any subject except not compromising with the Mon Calamari. Alderaan was a terrorist world. Koruun was full of violent near-humans with access to dangerous Old Republic tech and deserved to get bombarded. Wookiees were savages prone to violent outbursts and refused to adapt to basic galactic cultural norms. So enslaving them was the only way to get the message across to these banthoids. The Galactic Republic was a highly unstable and corrupted to the core government that had long since fallen from grace and needed replacement. The Death Star would've only served as a symbol of fear to establish law and order. Alderaan and Yavin and a few others would've simply been examples until the message was made clear across the galaxy. The only real flaw in the Empire's perfection was Palpatine and his encouragement of deceit to ascend the ranks and needless use of pointless controversies to feed his ego against the jedi. So in short, Trachta did nothing wrong.
>>5022 >So in short, Trachta did nothing wrong. He did, he trusted fat people and got shot for that. Never trust fat people.
(meant to respond sooner) >>5018 if you're going to have extragalactic invaders, you need to handle that with subtlety. otherwise, you end up with the 'alien invasion' trope, which doesn't really fit in a galaxy full of aliens. there's alot wrong with them. their immunity to the Force is a contradiction, they don't fit the overall feel of Star Wars, and they basically take a sledgehammer to the setting and at the wrong time. as I've said, the Yuuzhan Vong feel like the creation of a WH40K fan who hates Star Wars. >>5022 I won't deny what you've said here (in fact, you could justify Alderaan as 'shock and awe' against terrorists). while the Empire is better than the Republic in many ways, the fact remains, they're supposed to be the antagonist. the OT is about the Rebels triumphing over the Empire, in parallel to the Jedi triumphing over the Sith. even if you believe RotJ had a bad ending, it's not intended to be that at all. if the Yuuzhan Vong happen, that means the galaxy ends up far worse off under a Rebel victory than Imperial (because the Empire could've fought them off much more effectively). the end result is the outcome of the OT being a bad thing in the long run, which subverts the core of Star Wars. with that said, I'm more than ok with Thrawn, the Imperial Remnant, and conflict continuing. but the Vong are all sorts of wrong.
>>5062 that's what I get for not checking in for awhile. thanks.

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