/tech/ - Technology and Computing

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Anonymous 03/19/2020 (Thu) 18:31:27 No.2140
If anyone can modify code of free software, why don't people make better versions of programs like GIMP and other free alternatives to professional software? Shouldn't we have several versions of different free programs?
if you have a good change/fix just push it to the original repo, you don't need to make a new fork because you have some improvements
Because learning the codebase of something like that to the extent where you can do major reworks to it would be almost as hard as making your own alternative from scratch. And it would be much more fun to do it from scratch.
because when you finally understand something big enough to be important, it's simply easier and better to contribute to the original project.
>why don't people make better versions of programs Because forking a project takes a lot of time and effort, especially more if your attempting to keep pace with upstream updates. Patches are not universal 1:1 with forks. many forks take lots of effort in order to manage their codebase as it is. >like GIMP Great choice, because it just so happens that such a program exists. There is a failed fork for GIMP that originally attempted to make it more usable for photoshop users. last i checked it still uses a depreciated version of GIMP and is even more unusable. lmfao btw i just looked up and found a recent fork attempt called glimpse which does the same thing... it was started because of progressive faggots not liking the name Take your bets on how long it'll last LEL
>>2142 >>2145 >>2158 Daily reminder that palemoon exists and is proof that it only takes a single furry autist to actively keep a forked codebase upto date and without needing help from it's origin codebase
Thing that works vs thing that is experimental. The thing that works wins 99% of the time.
>>2159 fair point. i'd just ask, is this project or any other for that matter something you're actively developing for?
>>2163 To be fair. There is a general reason for why palemoon(uxp) exists. As firecucks as gone the way of chrome and decided to drop support for key features, features with large community support backing them such as addons and themes. >something you're actively developing for? Not actively in the main source but i do manage some addons to keep my shit running. like making small changes to pentadactyl from time to time so it still works.
>>2169 >pentadactyl do the five!
>>2171 pentadactyl is the comfiest shit, mix that with sidebar and treestyle tabs and you got the best browser.
>>2173 it is a nice and fast way to browse tbh.
>>2159 The team working on Pale Moon/UXP is actually bigger than one single furry. There are about 5 people on it. Sage for off-topic.
>>2173 Pentadactyl changes Firefox's UI too much for my tastes. It's also a pain to configure. I've been using VimFx since the XUL days. It still works on the latest Firefox if you install LegacyFox: https://github.com/akhodakivskiy/VimFx https://github.com/girst/LegacyFox
>>2192 Do they all have their own fursuits or do they just share them when someone wants to have sex?
>>2140 Few people are capable of improving such programs, few people are willing to help for free (or even have the free time to do so), and almost no one has the ability to lead such a project anywhere good. If that wasn't enough, once a project is big enough you have a lot of people that will shill abd fight to keep it big even at the expenses of superior alternatives: this applies mostly to SystemD, but GIMP is another relatively severe case. "it just works" FOSS programs are the exception, not the norm, as seen by their abnormal popularity.
Most people are followers. This includes anons and programmers. We have bursts of OC whenever the spirit moves on us (like the LibreOffice mascot contest), but right now our circles have established a culture of doing nothing but bitching and telling other anons to do shit we don't do ourselves, so it shouldn't surprise you that we don't make a whole lot. Programmers, on the other hand, are stuck in a stagnant culture of working on other peoples' inconsistent, badly-designed software and operating systems. The mantra "don't reinvent the wheel" is drilled into them so they don't get too ambitious unless they become part of a group allowed to reinvent it, like Rustfags, who ultimately don't change shit either because they know even less about consistency and design than the people who created today's mainstream software. It doesn't have to be like this.
>>2385 >It doesn't have to be like this. I like the way you think anon. Come help us invent the future. >>>/robowaifu/
>>2386 Not exactly my thing, but your board has some cool stuff.
>>2392 Fair enough, thanks for dropping in.
>>2192 >5 people that's not that big when you compare that to Mozilla and the fsf fsf can't even manage their fork properly lmao
>>2159 >>2192 Too bad Palemoon doesn't work for a lot of websites and has niggerlicious copyright/license and the devs spend more time harassing people that want to port it to other OSs than working to fix their own bullshit.
>>2395 >Palemoon doesn't work for a lot of websites stop using shitty websites >has niggerlicious copyright/license It's literally verbatim the firefox license, if some niggerlicious nigger like the faggots at bsd decide to use official branding of fucking course their going to get their ass handed to them.
>>2395 >harassing people that want to port it to other OSs they made significant changes to the source code and decided to call it "palemoon". Literally all they had to do was call it something else.
>>2396 I see I was right and the furry is here to defend his piece of shit code. >stop using shitty websites That's the entire web >It's literally verbatim the firefox license, if some niggerlicious nigger like the faggots at bsd decide to use official branding of fucking course their going to get their ass handed to them. <Furry branding is the same as Mozilla branding <It's okay to threaten people with a lawyer instead of explaining to them that you'd prefer they call it something else
>>2398 >t. doesn't know how licenses work
>>2395 What doesn't work with palememe? Is it a javascript thing? Because I never saw anything broken, but then again I just ignored the site instead of enabling niggerscript, if I did would I have realized the site still wouldn't have worked?
>>2398 >That's the entire web examples? I haven't had a single problem loading any decent website. Even some niggerlicous websites like twitter and youtube work fine enough although invidious is better
>>2398 >I see I was right and the furry is here rent free
>>2403 I'm not the one lurking for any mention of palemoon so I can shill/defend it. >>2401 Anything in the rolling standard that google/mozilla decided to support since the last Palemoon release or three. Since the devs working on Palemoon as so horrible and only backport things into their release you're often stuck waiting months-years for support of things like new video/audio codecs, CSS features, and yes niggerscript. >>2400 I don't care about the branding even though it's totally niggerlicious to complain about it but given we're dealing with furries I expect attention whoring and autism. What I take issue with is treating someone trying to port the software like this: http://archive.fo/XZvng You can not excuse the behavior in that archive.
>>2404 Thanks. I guess I lucked out in avoiding the shortcomings since I don't enable javascript and don't use the browser media player to have noticed those deficiencies. >so horrible Got any funny stories about that, or is it just general shoddiness?
>>2404 >>You can not excuse the behavior in that archive. i can too, watch me. >guy creates issue related to license >states perfectly every section that is the issue >should be a simple ez fix >nigger decides to say "no" and ignore everything >surprised when shit hits the fan This very same thing happend back when debian modified firefox, they had to change the branding because it was no longer compliant under the offical branding. This seems niggerlicous until you realize that by not taking this stance they are opening up the flood gates for massive modification that could change way to much or even be disruptive to the original project. Do you think forks like waterfox, icecat and seamonkey are named that way just because the devs thought it'd be cool? no, theres a purpose behind it.
>>2406 You are as autistic as mattatobin in that archive if you don't see the issue. >barge into repo which is WORKING IN YOUR BENEFIT to get palememe working in openbsd <YOU WILL REMOVE THESE LINES OR YOU MUST DISABLE BRANDING REEE >act like you can demand anything >project owner wants to talk to the furry about it >furry comes in <YOU WILL COMPLY WITH !MY! LICENSE REEEEEEEEE >repo is tired of your shit and removes palememe <WTFFF why did you do that?????
>>2408 Your ass niggerlicious as the faggot who decuided to quit working on his port over something as small as branding >work on port of uxp to bsd >can't use official branding because licenses >instead of working around the issue decided to pull a phill fish >fuck it port cancelled cause they hurt my fee fees ;_;
>>2405 Not much of a story. Ever seen a project that is just someone backporting and copy/pasting someone else's work? That's Palememe. Add in a furry and friends with heads rammed so far up their asses that they haven't seen daylight in years and unwarranted self importance and you understand the entire project. I want a better browser but Palememe isn't it. I ran it for nearly a year and was forced to go back to modern firefox due to it breaking so often and being a pain in the ass to deal with. Modern firefox isn't that bad if you compile it yourself and do the steps needed to unbotnet it as much as you can which is probably more than the furry running Palememe has done to the code base. Since web standards are now rolling standards there isn't much that can be done. Until someone puts effort into making another engine and manages to get parity with current chrome/mozilla we're stuck. Don't expect that from Palememe. They best you're going to get from them is a half broken browser that's just a combination of the old Mozilla GUI and their attempt at backporting Mozilla's latest engine into it. If they spent as much time working on their project as they do defending their browser here and elsewhere maybe they'd git gud and release something worth gloating about. If you don't believe they're here consider the fact that all I had to do was call it shit in this thread and 4 new IPs instantly showed up to defend it.
>>2409 >Your ass niggerlicious as the faggot who decuided to quit working on his port over something as small as branding He stopped working on it because you treated him like shit and threatened him with a lawyer instead of posting something like >Hey, I'm happy someone has done the work to port this to OpenBSD. I just ask that you call it something else like people do when they add firefox to 3rd party repos.
>>2411 That's great and all but issue trackers aren't your personal blog. The point of an issue tracker is to track issues, not post about your feelings like some highschool girl. >>>>>>you LOL
>>2410 >If you don't believe they're here consider the fact that all I had to do was call it shit in this thread and 4 new IPs instantly showed up to defend it. I love how you bashed palemoon devs by calling them self important but here you are believing that any opinion that goes counter to your own is the boogieman.
>>2412 It was <you >That's great and all but issue trackers aren't your personal blog. The blogposts are all from the Palememe team in that archive. Everyone should read it, here I'll post it again: http://archive.fo/XZvng Good job getting every user of an OS to not want to run your browser. You can treat people like that who are doing the work for free and expect a different result. If you ran OpenBSD you'd understand why no one is going to run anything that isn't in ports. If you would have treated them better they would have sent you back countless security fixes by now. It would have been a benefit to everyone. Instead you went over there and acted like a huge faggot.
>>2413 Nice try. This board was dead as fuck and rarely posted on at this hour for months. Don't expect anyone to believe activity picked up organically as soon as Palememe was shit on. Everyone knows how google alerts work.
>>2415 the fuck you talking about, my last post in this very thread was march 20, i only post here every week or so cause 8/tech/ is dead... This actually kind of concerning how self absorbed you are. Just because you and me happen to be online at the same time doesn't make it suddenly any different.
So currently this discussion about Pale Moon is: <software has a license <developers try to get a project to comply with the license <the project does not comply >reee furry bad What's the point of having a license if respecting it is wrong? Of course you can debate on the actual license, but if it's not enforced then there's no point. Reminder that software can be free as in freedom only thanks to the enforcing of a license granting said freedom. And yes, calling a lawyer is the correct move, as that is exactly what the FSF has done multiple times with companies not respecting the GPL yet using GPL-licensed software.
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>>2416 >>2417 >Anon speaks ill of Furryfox >archives get posted >same damage control every time from (((anons))) I enjoy these threads
>>2418 >>archives get posted show me in the archive where the bad man touched you.
>>2419 kek I'm not the same anon you're arguing with faggot. Is this really Moonchild lurking? >inb4 samefag
>>2398 touchy, touchy. why do you care what software I use friend. you're not some kind of (((shill))) are you jewgle diversity hire Chaim?
>>2417 >>2411 No. This has always been a people issue. Taking it out of context doesn't mean it didn't happen. <software has a license >volunteers try to do something with it >made a mistake, didn't follow your license <developers try to get a project to comply with the license by legal threatening them on sight >volunteers got butthurt, stop working on it altogether <the project does not comply >reee furry bad Call volunteers emotional, unprofessional, grow a pair, should had got it right at the beginning; but that doesn't change the fact that they were most likely not malicious. PM dev's response was to point the legal gun at them. Devs might even have every right to do so. But you can't deny that wasn't the best response to give. Yes. They fucked up, stepped on your lawn. Does that warrant an instant legal threat? They were about to spread the greatness your construction. Do they deserve your 'self-defense' for their little careless trespass? >>2398 Nobody cares about your shitty software choice but your bull-shitpost. >2020 >using jewscript >not umatrix/ublock advancing them >not compartmentalizing with multiple browsers >t. r/technology ishygddt If most websites you browse is broken because of jewscript, to the point where switching browsers for those sites is a horrible action; you should unironically go back and lurk moar. If those sites are normal, here, take this rope. Why the fuck are you even here? t. sent from my pale meme
>>2410 I'll check out firefox and other browsers again then, that's why I even used palememe from time to time. I was lazy and wanted to avoid all the Firefox/Chrome baggage. But really I was just being lazy and latched on to one of the goto-alternatives to the big2. I'd be tempted to go full textbrowser if thumbnails weren't a necessity to me for browsing ibs.
>>2424 >Does that warrant an instant legal threat? They were about to spread the greatness your construction. Do they deserve your 'self-defense' for their little careless trespass? Yes, they do. Being too lax is what brought the modern web. It's ok to not be too strict parsing HTML, as time goes on people will conform. Years later, writing HTML is full of edge cases that makes writing a decent document impossible. Let's not be too hard on them for not following the standard everyone finally agreed upon and web developers are finally following. Years later, the non-standard behaviour is now the de-facto standard because coincidentally that implementation has the biggest market share. Let's not follow the license from the get go, we can always fix it when the time comes. Years later, licenses mean nothing unless they are approved by the government, killing freedom in software. Yes, I'm exaggerating. It is a huge exaggeration. But can you see what I mean? Sometimes you must be aggressive, there is no other choice.
>>2429 Stop moving goalpost. I will just say it once: You had every right to do what you did. and: The point is not lax or not. The point has always been the way you handle that. You don't cease and desist anyone bumpped into you. Not letting anyone get away with it is not being verbally aggressive. The spirit of foss is to enable others to use and modify your work. You could have been less aggressive for the sake of that, and still achieves zero leeway for malicious trespasser. This is a false dichotomy to fool yourself and others. Stop being immature. <You could have not killed him. >B-but he took my toy!!!1111 <... >B-but H-he is wrong!!!111 Yes, I'm exaggerating. It is a huge exaggeration. But can you see what I mean? Sometimes you don't have to be aggressive, there are better choices.
>>2429 And yes, don't stop being based and motherfucking strict on html parsing and web standard. Keep up the good work on that regard.
>>2430 reminder that they didn't kill the port, and all openbsd had to do was change a single line.
>>2140 >why don't people make better versions of programs like GIMP I don't think the homos that bitch and moan about GIMP know what they want/agree on what they want. GIMP already had an interface change thanks to this anyway. What's left to do?
>>2404 >http://archive.fo/XZvng Autism was strong on both sides on this. Does the furry fuck think he's the president, acting high and mighty because he was too important to be dragged into it? The other dude doing the port wasn't too reasonable either. I understand his frustration since a random nobody showed up DEMANDING shit like some authoritarian leader. But he was also a sore autist shit. "Petulant children", and dropping the project altogether for a minor altercation.
>>2801 >What's left to do? Tool that draws circles and squares. GIMP is the only image editor on the planet that doesn't have this.
The one and only reason people don't fix shit is because: >1. It takes a long ass time to learn a codebase in 2020. Have you seen the absurd LOC in modern projects? >2. Projects are not documented enough to be openly hackable >3. Nobody enjoys trying to make sense of C codebases with a thousand imported header files and single-letter variables, specially when they are not well commented. >4. Some developers have some loud and ass-backwards opinions and they will reject your patches because of some vague notions about hoe it doesn't fit the project's philosophy. People are afraid of having their efforts thrown away due to some dude's ego. Open development suffers from the gigantic autism of the average developer. Hackable software needs some extensive documentation and not many programmers are up to that task, which causes people to be afraid of diving deep into it.
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>>2803 baka
>>2403 furries are based. if you're still not a furry in 2021 you aren't going to make it

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